Posted by ritenotary on 10/28/10 5:37pm
Msg #358636

Frustrated and feel abused.

I just did a closing the company called last minute for purchase great no problem. Then they send me docs 15 minutes before closing, ok then i go to the closing with the printed documents. I was under the impression I was only signing for the buyers, then the seller realtor comes to me demanding that I notarize his documents. Signing company did not tell me that I was signing for two parties, it gets better then reading in the Title company's instructions, I have to fax the whole yes I said it 135 pages to the lender from the realtors office. Then I call the signing company and says to me do what it says on the instructions. If it means to fax 135 pages then you do it. Ok start faxing, the fax machine goes so slow a page every 3 minutes. I spend two hours faxing, i'm late for my appointments.
Then the title company calls me towards just when I am going to proceed signing the documents, that there is one more person that needs to sign they can't make it and I MUST leave immediately to meet the seller's husband 20 minutes away. I drive 20 minutes away he forgets his ID. Well guess what I did not wait. Signing company calls me and screams at me for not waiting for him to get the ID. I told them I'd be more than happy do it if he met me at my other closing or on the road. I had appointments previously. Then she calls me back and says that if I did not meet him to sign the papers and get his id they will lower my fee to $50.00
Then I call the title company with all that faxing and driving and only offered me $15.00

DON'T YOU THINK that is ABUSING SIGNING AGENTS?

Reply by Notary/IL on 10/28/10 5:49pm
Msg #358637

Not only is it abusive, they have no right! for me, i don't fax anything back even if asked, i came to realize that you don't have the time for what they are requesting. some have all of these instructions ex. blue ink vs black in, hoping that you screw up just to lower or not pay. you have to let them know they are not the only that you're working for. when you get a call let them know you are doing them a favor, not the other way around, tell them you have another appointment and will fedex back to them as soon as you can, you will not be faxing, you have too many appointments.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/28/10 6:42pm
Msg #358640

Notary/IL....in the case of a purchase

(or investment property with no RTC) faxbacks are the norm and part of the job and yes they do have the right (he who has the money...). but 135 pages? Not so sure - I think that was excessive, but the criticals/legals? Yes - needed for immediate funding.

Ritenotary, IMO as soon as you heard the word "purchase" you should have been asking about all the requirements, especially the faxbacks as they're almost always required in a purchase (can count on one hand when they're not required)...then you'd know if you had the time to accommodate or not. As for springing the seller on you at the last minute, if that's how it truly went down, then IMO that's out of line, especially expecting you to follow him around town or drive to another area, thus making all your other appointments late. Unless this is a company you have a great relationship with, a call to the hiring party as soon as the realtor docs were presented was called for - get approval AND authorization for an increase in fee - then AGAIN when you're told you have to do a split signing (which is wht it turned out to be. And you know what? If this *IS* a company you have a good working relationship, they'll understand and have no problem compensating you for your services, time and travel.

For me, the scenario you just described is a $200+ deal...

Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/28/10 6:57pm
Msg #358641

Re: Notary/IL....in the case of a purchase

I agree with Linda. Purchase does not have the right to cancel and should be funding the same day if it's not to late in the day. Fax backs are a given. If you have the seller side only, it's normally very few docs's. They should have told you they would be there.
You should ask
Are both parties going to be there?
Are there faxbacks and how many pages (Some will accept less than the full package)
Are funds due and if so have arrangements been made to wire them?
Is a realtor going to be there (they need some copies of the doc's for their file. The HUD for sure)
Finally knowing all this you make a copy of the doc's the seller has signed and give them to them. Borrower gets a copy of all doc's and then what ever the realtor need.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/28/10 8:28pm
Msg #358653

<<<.....then reading in the Title company's instructions,.....>>>

I never print and run. I don't care when the docs arrive in relation to the appointment time. I take time to review both the hiring party's instructions and the package. Since that request was part of the written instructions and if you reviewed it before printing, you could have immediately called the hiring party to renegotiate your signing fee. If they didn't agree to the new fee, that's when you could have told then "thanks, but NO thanks".

<<<....the fax machine goes so slow a page every 3 minutes. I spend two hours faxing, i'm late for my appointments.>>>

You need better equipment. It's not their fault you have an antique fax machine.....dump it and get a new, efficient one. Never be late to other appointments for which you have ready docs, especially when they spring unexpected events on you. While the faxbacks were not unexpected (in the instructions you failed to review), notarizing seller paperwork and splitting the signing was unexpected. Plus the signer forgot his ID also put a snag in your day. I would not have notarized for the seller or waited for the signer to retrieve his ID nor drove to another location to accommodate another signer **if it jeopardized other appointments**.

I agree with the others.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 10/28/10 8:33pm
Msg #358654

I'm reading that the fax machine was at the Realtor's

office, not his/her personal one.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/28/10 10:42pm
Msg #358679

Yep, you're right Linda....I missed that.

I would have refused to fax from a machine that takes one page every 3 mins.

Reply by kathy/ca on 10/28/10 8:44pm
Msg #358657

"I never print and run. I don't care when the docs arrive

in relation to the appt time. I take time to review both the hiring party's instructions and the package". Same here, always!

Reply by ritenotary on 10/30/10 7:45am
Msg #358935

First of all it was not my fax machine it was the fax machine at the realtor's office. I had to then go my house to continue faxing in all this mess however I was late for my appointments because of the second signer with out the id's Well boy have I learned my lesson but thanks for the advise.

Reply by MW/VA on 10/28/10 9:48pm
Msg #358666

I think I would have called them at the first opportunity & got a fee adjustment for the extra phases of this signing. I've had to fax critical docs (HUD, Note, DOT, Til, etc. for funding, but never an entire package. Next time around, as if they have the ability to scan & email the docs. It's so much faster. The fee was definitely abusive, and I imagine you won't be interested in taking any more assignments from them. I know I've learned a few lessons in this biz the hard way. Chalk it up to "experience" and move on, wiser for the next time.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 10/29/10 12:46am
Msg #358691

Anyone would feel abused, after what you went thru, but it is part of learning the ropes, take your time and ask questions first. I am thinking you are relatively new to this business?

You mentioned you were reading the title companies instructions. Those instructions do not usually apply to you. You should be following the instructions you received from who ever hired you.
If escrow hired you, they would have told you about faxbacks. So would/should the signing service.
Always ask if there are any faxbacks, when you are first negoiating your fee.
I see often see the type of instructions you mentioned; to fax the package or copy and send complete signed package to the borrower, IN THE TITLE companies instructions TO THEM from the lender, not to ME or YOU the notary loan closer).
That is something they do when the get the docs back from you.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/29/10 2:45am
Msg #358696

I think you got lots of good advice here, especially about asking lots of questions up front. And if the requirements change substantially, it's time to renegotiate. Both parties come to an agreement on a fee based on certain expectations. (If those expectations don't fit into the time I have available, I don't accept the assignment.) Further, we're not employees (let alone slaves) who can be ordered to do whatever they want. Driving somewhere else - especially 20 minutes away - is tantamount to another appointment. I'm happy to oblige, if it fits into my schedule (or if I can reasonably adjust it) up to a point, but I'd also expect to be reasonably compensated. That's just taking up a whole other time slot.

There are probably a few things here that could have been handled a little differently (like making sure to remind people to have their IDs - although that's no guarantee, I've learned), but overall, it sounds to me like you're better off without them as a client.

And BTW, unless I had nothing better to do and was having fun chatting away with the borrowers and Realtor, or I saw a good opportunity to do some marketing, I can't imagine standing by for two hours while an entire package is faxed. I have no idea how I would have handled it, but I'd sure like to think there was a better solution somewhere! This is something that should have been disclosed up front - if it even was something that was supposed to be done by you. vs. the tc.

Reply by Jeanne Kozma on 10/29/10 5:42am
Msg #358701

YES!!!!!

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/10 5:46am
Msg #358704

Re: Frustrated and feel abused - RIGHTLY SO

In a million years I would not use a RE Office's fax to send that large of a pkg, NOR would I spend that amount of time trying. When I do send docs for funding, I send only the front & signature pages only of the Mtg, the Note, Hud & TIL, copy of funds & odd things they might ask for.

As for the rest of this - you've had a night to sleep on it, no doubt you'll wake up this morning with a more rigid backbone (meant the nicest way!). People will take you for all you'll hand over to them sometimes. These are the lessons that teach us the most. Think about it that way, because the easy/quick closings really don't teach us all that much - days like you had yesterday, full of lots of new knowledge. =)

Reply by James Dawson on 10/29/10 10:23am
Msg #358735

Yes, abused. IMO are had to make a judgment call about the work asked of you. Fee re-negotiating for sure. You knew how much you were going to be paid for the assignment. Now they pile on more work. If you do it, you're working free. If you don't do it, you're working free.

Easy, refuse to do it without re-negotiating. They will NOT be able to get another notary to take your place...FREE. They have to comply.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/10 3:21am
Msg #358912

Right, James. The key is to renegotiate before the extra work is already done, when you no longer have any leverage -- unless you're dealing with a client for which you have an existing relationship and you trust them to treat you right. The other side of that, if you work in an area as saturated as mine is, is to be prepared for them to pull the assignment and give it to someone else. And if they do, they'll have saved you lots of aggravation, to say nothing of a money losing effort.

Reply by ritenotary on 10/30/10 7:50am
Msg #358936

Well it's all over and I thank you for giving me such great advise. thanks thanks thanks.