Posted by Linda Snell on 10/29/10 11:55am
Msg #358756

Guidelines versus controlling work equals independent

contractor versus employee. At some point, and the latest GMAC requirement to "sign off" regarding notarizing in borrower's presences as an example, notaries are no longer independent contractors but become employees meaning the lender or title company would be liable for paying the employer's portion of FICA. Controlling and dictating exactly how work is to be done means you are an employee. Independent contractors are responsible for doing the work correctly without being told or needing to be told exactly how to do the work. Of course, I don't expect to seeing my FICA being reduced any time soon but it does annoy me when I'm treated like an employee without any of the benefits of being an employee.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/29/10 12:01pm
Msg #358759

They're only passing on to you what lender has

imposed on them - and with the GMAC mess I can't say I'm surprised.

Since I notarize in the borrowers' presence all the time anyway (per my state law) this is no big deal - no bigger than having to fax a completion report.

MHO

Reply by MW/VA on 10/29/10 1:39pm
Msg #358782

It seems the mess gets bigger. I wouldn't agree to anything

that required me to become an employee, because I'm not. IMO that's more fraud and a bigger issue than notarizing in the presence of the borrower. There is nothing in our state law that specifically says we have to notarize in the signers presence. I always keep in mind that the notary laws in most states were not written for the unique situations presented in mortgage loan signings. I've heard thatVA has tried to stay clear of anything specifically about NSA work, because it is too complex to include in the notary laws.

Reply by Jack/AL on 10/29/10 1:46pm
Msg #358784

They're calling us Closing Agents

Here's the content f the new form.
--------------------------------------
Closing Agent Certification Document Execution
Loan #:
Property Address:
Dear Signing Agent:
As the closing agent, you are required to certify that you have performed your duties in
accordance with all applicable state and federal requirements and regulations and that all
documents requiring notarization were acknowledged and completed by the notary at the
time of signing in the presence of the signer(s).
[Insert signers’ names]
I certify that I have verified the identification of the individuals listed above and that the notary
acknowledgment was fully completed at the time of signing in the presence of the signer(s).
_________________________________________ _____________________________
Closing Agent Date
------------------------------------------------------
Here's my response. Perhaps someone with some legal savvy, like PAW, will respond to them.


I understand the purpose and process for completing the form, but have a concern about calling the Notary Public a "Closing Agent." We normally are not performing as an "agent" for anyone and we have no fiduciary or other duties in actually representing any party to the signing. Secondly, in many packages, there are documents requiring the signature of the "Closing Agent" in the final review and disbursement of the documents and funds, that being someone involved in the finalization at the office of the lender or title company. I suggest removing the term "Closing Agent" from the form and replacing it with "Notary Public."

Jack Templeton
256-227-3259

Reply by MW/VA on 10/29/10 2:04pm
Msg #358792

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

If I were to represent myself as a Closing Agent instead of a Notary Signing Agent, I would be required to be CRESPA certified in Virginia (equivalent of a TPL). I am always very careful about the language & label issues. I wouldn't have a problem in complying & certifying that I notarized the docs in the borrowers presence. To me I don't see that as the issue. I have issue that I'm asked to conduct my business in a different capacity than independent contractor.

Reply by Sandra Clark on 10/29/10 2:32pm
Msg #358798

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

Jack I agree 100%. I am not a Closing Agent I am NSA and I make sure not to sign anything that says Closing Agent or Settlement Agent and I always explain to the borrowers what my job is in ref. to their closing. I also will not sign the various contracts that some of the SS want you to sign. I am not agreeing to their low ball offers, ($80.) their various YOU MUST DO lists that are required such as YOU MUST call within an hour of the closing, you must email within one hour, you must call us from the table when you get there, you must call us from the table before you leave When you have back to back closings it's not feasible.........or you agree that we will only pay $25. if the loan fails to fund, when it's not my fault . If I drive an hour or more, spend an hour or more at the table and then spend another hour driving home I do expect to be paid my full fee. I've done my job. I am not their employee - I am an independent contractor

Reply by Tish/CA on 10/29/10 2:55pm
Msg #358801

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

Excellent post, Sandra. I agree 100%. There are a couple of SS out there that disclose to NSA's that they will not pay if the loan becomes a no-sign or doens't fund/canceled. How folks can work under those conditions is beyond me!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/29/10 3:20pm
Msg #358810

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

LSI also began putting this on all their confirmations, in the paragraph at the bottom under Special Instructions:

"All documents requiring notarization must be acknowledged and completed by the notary at the time of signing before the borrower."

Reply by MW/VA on 10/29/10 3:24pm
Msg #358813

There must be another issue going on, and I suspect some

are having signings completed by others & then notarizing after the fact. IMO, that would clearly be notary misconduct--not witnessing the actual signature of the borrowers.

Reply by ikando on 10/29/10 3:48pm
Msg #358815

Re: There must be another issue going on, and I suspect some

A few of the more recent instructions I've received tell me to "be sure to sign" on the notary line. Could be some people are forgetting to go back to sign the docs after they've left the borrower.

Personally, it's easier to go ahead and complete everything at the same time than worry about having missed something when I get back to the office. And when the notary information is on a separate page (frequently with a mortgage), I'll have the borrower initial under my seal that it was done while I was in their presence.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 10/29/10 4:42pm
Msg #358825

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

If they did put "Notary Public" on the form, I would line it out and change it to "Signing Agent". Same with "Closing Agent".
If I am to notarize a signature on a doc, I am "Notary Public".
If no notarization, and they want my signature, I am again "Signing Agent".

Reply by Richard Ingram on 10/29/10 5:08pm
Msg #358834

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

I always mark through Closing Agent, print in Signing and initial. I have had no problems.

Reply by parkerc/ME on 10/29/10 8:58pm
Msg #358888

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

Same here. Line through Closing and change to "Signing"

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/30/10 3:14am
Msg #358911

Re: They're calling us Closing Agents

I do the same, because in CA, we're not permitted to use the title "Notary Public" for any purpose other than the notarization of a signature.