Posted by Shauna/WA on 10/15/10 4:41pm
Msg #356965

Looking for advice

Had a signing today for a very nice couple. They had a lot of problems with their lender so were wary.

Here's the issue: We got to four pages in ONE hour. They have no RTC, didn't get a copy beforehand and were worried some issues they'd discussed with their lender wouldn't be addressed (which is true, signing cancelled due to issues).

What would you do in that situation where, if not controlled, the signing would last forever and five days?

Reply by MW/VA on 10/15/10 4:52pm
Msg #356970

I'm curious. What kind of transaction was it that it had no RTC?

Reply by Shauna/WA on 10/15/10 4:54pm
Msg #356972

Refi of a second property (actually, the house next door).

Reply by Simple Solutions Notary Service - JoAnn Baracosa on 10/15/10 4:55pm
Msg #356973

Was it an Investment property? Those loans do not have RTC. I hope that helps. Sounds like you got just to the Settlement Statement to me. That is one of the biggest form that can cause a borrower no to sign. Sounds like they were not happy and dicided not to sign. Nothing you could do but have them call there lender and talk. If you did that I would not worry. You did you job.

Reply by Shauna/WA on 10/15/10 5:01pm
Msg #356975

Actually they were looking at the instructions to closing agent (this company wanted all pages initialed).

Yup, investment property. Talked with lender and SS and they agreed to redraw and will send me back out BUT I worry about it lasting forever next time.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 10/15/10 5:11pm
Msg #356977

Shauna--you might see if the lender will CC the docs to the borrowers for review before the actual closing appointment. I've done this before with redraws that I thought might get wacky like yours did.

good luck!

Reply by Grammyzoom on 10/15/10 5:12pm
Msg #356978

IMO only

Perhaps you can get the lender to give them a set of the crucial documents prior to your appointment with them so that they have an opportunity to do a review and ask questions prior to your appointment.

If lender does not want to do that I would pull out only the critical docs and very carefully go over those to their satisfaction. Ask them if they understand all of the terms of their loan. Once you have asked if they have any questions and hopefully there are non, you can explain that the rest of the documents will go quickly. Apologize in advance and tell them you do have another signing after theirs and must leave by whatever time you deem reasonable.

I always feel that extra time spent with the borrowers at the onset of the appointment saves a whole lot of time during the rest of the signing. Make it clear that you have given them all of the information you have it in your power to explain and any other questions they have must be addressed to their lender. If this becomes an hour long conversation with lender, make another appointment to come back when and only when they are ready to sign.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/15/10 5:12pm
Msg #356979

Then you need to make the situation explicitly clear to your hiring party, make sure you're going to be paid for this first one...and price the second visit accordingly...right up front.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 10/15/10 5:35pm
Msg #356985

What documents do you start with when you do a signing? I noticed you said they were looking at the closing instructions - they may have to be initialed, but that is NOT where you should be starting, no matter what order you received the docs in. Critical docs first - HUD-1, TIL, Note, Mortgage or DOT, etc. MOST of the time, if there's going to be a problem with a signing it will surface with the HUD-1 or the Note, because that's where the numbers won't make sense. Just because the lender or whoever sends the docs in a certain order doesn't mean you have to present them (or return them) that way.

Don't waste your time going through the non-essential docs in the beginning, especially with an investment property where there is no RTC. If the numbers on the HUD-1 don't make sense to them, you'll be done very quickly.

Reply by LisaWI on 10/15/10 5:59pm
Msg #356988

As one of my borrowers put it "the settlement statement can be the deal breaker" and I told him that is exactly why I start with it first. All issues can usually be resolved right away by going over it first.

With any closing, all pages being initialled or not, I put those closing instructions in the back. All the pertinent info is in the docs as Mike stated. By the time you get to the end of the package, they have seen everything they want to see and will just initial those remaining pages without a fuss. Showing the borrowers the closing instructions initially could confuse them more than need be because they are usually intended for the settlement agent.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/15/10 6:20pm
Msg #356991

<<<What would you do in that situation where, if not controlled, the signing would last forever and five days? >>>

During the initial confirmation call, you can ask the borrowers if they've spoken to their LO and gone over the figures. If the answer was Yes, then ask if all of their questions and concerns were addressed. If the answer is No, then ask if they'd like to BEFORE the appointment.

During the appointment, if they are not signing after 10 mins or so, then ask them:

(a) would they like time to speak to their LO and you'll leave and return in X mins OR after your other appointments (whichever applies). I would NOT sit in their house while they resolved issues, I'd leave and get a cup of coffee (bottle of juice or water, whatever).

(b) <if there's a RTC> would they like to sign the documents and have questions and concerns addressed during the three days - and if nothing is resolved in those three days they can exercise their option to rescind

A make it a personal rule to NEVER sit is anyone's home. If one spouse hasn't arrived yet for the signing, and I'm asked to "come on in and have a seat, he/she will be here shortly", while said spouse goes into another room to do "whatever".....NOPE - I leave my business card and ask that he/she call me when the spouse arrives, I go and get in my car and drive away (around the corner to the local coffee shop or fast food place). I won't be accused of damaging, breaking or stealing their belongings....

Reply by Shauna/WA on 10/15/10 10:10pm
Msg #357027

SUCH good advice, I really appreciate it. I was racking my brain on what to do better and knew that the collective here would be worth 10 of my brains and I was right.

I will ask the lender to send the docs to these folks ahead of time, this time. I'm also going to let them know that we have a set amount of time to get this done because I have another appointment (even if I don't).

I love the idea of leaving while they work things out.

Really, all of you are treasures and I appreciate every bit of information you're all willing to share. Thank you again!

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/16/10 1:08am
Msg #357033

<<<.....because I have another appointment (even if I don't). >>>

The following events count as appointments:

1. watching grass grow
2. watching paint peel
3. watching cars drive by and counting the blue ones
4. walking the dog
5. grocery shopping
6. washing the car
7. taking a nap
8. shopping/errands
9. taking a bubble bath
10. vacuuming dust bunnies

Any window of time you block from your schedule is "an appointment". Therefore, you can always have another appointment to go to.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 10/16/10 1:42am
Msg #357035

Thanks, LKT!

Your "appointment" list is hilarious! Addtionally, your other post about not sitting alone in the borrowers' house while waiting for a late spouse as the other spouse disappears in another room is a valuable piece of advice - which I intend to follow next time the occasion arises.

Reply by CF on 10/16/10 8:16am
Msg #357038

Do not accept the next appointment....this is what I do

with problem signings and a re-draw is called for. It is not worth my time to sit through it again. However, I will say that I would never only get through 4 pages in one hour....I would adjourn. There is NO way that I get paid enough for that and I always have other appointments to get to.

Also, if I felt my 1st fee was in jeopardy then so be it. A price to pay for learning how to take control of the signing!!! I would rather loose once than twice. You know what you are in for....and probably longer this time than last. Those pages that took 1 hour should have never been presented first!!!! You did not present in the proper order to make the borrowers felt comfortable. Also, there is no RTC for a 2nd...so it sounds like you shot yourself in the foot by offering the RTC w/o there being one to fall back on. Using the RTC as a crutch for the signing to continue is not a first line defense to a problem closing.

Reply by GWest on 10/16/10 9:52am
Msg #357043

Re: Do not accept the next appointment....this is what I do

I re-read the posts and did not see were she offered the RTC w/o there being one to fall back on. I agree that order presented was the issue here and the HUD should always be presented first.

Reply by Shauna/WA on 10/16/10 8:52pm
Msg #357073

Re: Do not accept the next appointment....this is what I do

Normally, I do. This company wanted docs presented in a certain way (a first for me - usually I send them back in the order like they, but never had one want it presented a certain way).

Also, no RTC in this one. I never, ever put pressure on someone to keep signing if they're not comfortable. I don't want that coming back to bite me in the backside.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/17/10 10:19am
Msg #357094

they were looking at the instructions to closing agent

Are you saying that the lender insisted on you preseting the insturctions to the signing
agent FIRST??
Truly wierd.
Even if a lender gives you insturctions like that, IMO, you are still free to verbally run through
the hign points of loan ( loan amount , term ,interest rate, , cash to/from, date and amount of first payment ) prior to commencing signing dox.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/18/10 7:39am
Msg #357135

Re: they were looking at the instructions to closing agent

Nothing will mess up a borrower's head quicker than the Closing Instructions or the Prelim Hud. I have one (grumble/growl) client that insists on the Closing Instructions being initialed, and the Prelim Hud SIGNED. This is nuts (IMHO, of course - but I don't get a vote).

These are moved by me to the absolute back of the pkg.