Posted by jnew on 10/28/10 2:43pm
Msg #358627

Notarizing incomplete mortgage payoff letter

The standard payoff letter for many lenders is submitted for signing with incomplete information and blank spaces. These are normally related to the amount, date and check number for the payment of the mortgage. The problem is that many of the lenders want the borrowers to sign and have their signatures notarized at signing. Does this not violate the requirement that no document can be notarized which is incomplete. Anyone had a problem with this?

Reply by ArtG/KS on 10/28/10 2:48pm
Msg #358629

Too many blanks for me. However that is not our decision to deny notarization.

In a payoff, the lender must send a form of notification to the register of deeds and in my own case, nothing needed to be signed by me for them to do that. On a refi however, if the borrower signs and the notary certificate is completed, then the problem if any is the borrowers concern. We should proceed with notarization.

Reply by PAW on 10/28/10 7:25pm
Msg #358643

I disagree, Art, from my perspective. If a document is blank or incomplete, then the signatures cannot be notarized. (At least here in FL, and in many other states.) I know that the KS Notary Guide is silent on the subject of blanks, so you really may not have a choice.

The payoff "request" letter must be signed by the borrowers, but I've never seen one that needed to have the signatures notarized. After funding, the lender is required to file a "Satisfaction of Mortgage" (or similar document) showing the lien is paid in full. Borrowers do not sign this document, only the lender, and the lender's representative/officer signature is notarized.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 10/28/10 8:11pm
Msg #358649

I'm with PAW on both counts

I'm with PAW on this--I DO deny notarization on items with blanks.

Likewise, I've never seen the payoff request letter requesting notarization, but regularly see the satisfaction of mortgage letter--I always do a double-take at that one, and then realize it's for the lender and doesn't need signatures by anyone at the table.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/28/10 8:36pm
Msg #358655

My last few closings have had this letter in the pkg

it's a Closeout Letter and I believe it (a) authorizes the title company and the old mortgage company to communicate; (b) authorizes the title company to pay off the mortgage; and (c) authorizes the paid off lender to close the account. Therefore, they want it notarized.

Reply by kathy/ca on 10/28/10 8:42pm
Msg #358656

I was taught that when there are blanks on documents such

as these, to either draw a line through the blanck or in some casea to write in TBD (to be determined), then notarize.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 10/29/10 7:57am
Msg #358710

Your right, we dont have a choice in Kansas. If the sigs and cert are there, the above blanks dont matter. I dont agree with that either, but that is what we must live with here.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/10 5:52am
Msg #358705

SO glad we don't have this stipulation ...

but for those that do - consider the intended use. By putting "TBD" on the line in a manner which does NOT prevent the actual info from being added might be the best way to satisfy everyone.

You (or borrower) could put the name of the lien holder, since that's known. You could put the loan number on, since that is also known. The amount could change, and the date could even change, & you can't know the check #, so those would best be left TBD.

Reply by ArtG/KS on 10/29/10 8:02am
Msg #358712

Re: SO glad we don't have this stipulation ...

It seems eveyyone is too quick to twist words around in this forum. GoodBYE. I wont be back.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/29/10 8:27am
Msg #358713

i don't understand what put his panties in a twist.... n/m

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/29/10 8:35am
Msg #358714

I didn't see a reason either...maybe woke up

on the wrong side of the bed.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/29/10 9:48am
Msg #358726

Wow - if that was to me, I'm clueless ...

In Michigan, we're not prohibited from notarizing documents that contain blanks ...perhaps it wasn't clear to Art what I meant? If so, I sure do apologize, Art!

Reply by rengel/CA on 10/29/10 11:25am
Msg #358749

In CA, we MUST refuse.....

From the 2010 CA notary Handbook:

"A notary public may not notarize a document that is incomplete. If presented with a document
for notarization, which the notary public knows from his or her experience to be incomplete or
is without doubt on its face incomplete, the notary public must refuse to notarize the document.
(Government Code section 8205)"

Reply by rengel/CA on 10/29/10 11:29am
Msg #358750

And...

I do not write anything on their docs. With all due respect to those who do, I just don't want to have my handwriting on anything but my notary certificates. Nor do I tell the signers to write anything on them.

My .02

Reply by kathy/ca on 10/29/10 12:20pm
Msg #358761

Rengel, so do you just not notarize? Then when docs are

received and they fill out that particular doc to eliminate those blanks, do you go back on your own dime to have it signed and notarized? When this happens is the TC okay with the later date being put in your notary cert? I am just curious how this ends up being handled when you refuse to notarize.