Posted by jnew on 10/24/10 12:13pm
Msg #357983

Opinion on Paypal

My understanding is that despite invoicing for paypal to a customer, the customer has the right to cancel the transaction before the money transfers to your account. It is for this reason that I decided against using a new customer with a poor rating on SC, even though the SS agreed to prepay on paypal for the signing. Was I wrong to do this?

Reply by Virginia/PA on 10/24/10 12:38pm
Msg #357984

I don't know the answer to your question, but I do have a comment. It is my personal opinion that if anyone does actually accept Paypal by a company offering payment that way due to their bad paying reputation that if they actually do cancel the Paypal transaction and you do the signing that you should post that nonpayment issue in capital letters on this message board for all to see as well as in Signing Central. That is very similar in my opinion to passing a bad check, which is a criminal offense. I haven't gotten into PayPal yet even though I have thought it to be a good solution to a bad problem, but I don't have enough experience to know about the fees that are charged by Paypal which eat into our profits. If we can ask for an additional $$$ from the signing company for Paypal costs, then it would be a viable collection method.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 10/24/10 1:08pm
Msg #357985

Everyone has to make their own business decisions. By turning down the job, you've just guaranteed that you won't make the money. However, if you had accepted the job you'd have had a chance to make the money. If you don't feel comfortable, then don't do it, but remember that ALL of life is a gamble of one kind or another.

And as someone else stated, there is a commission charge from PayPal when they transfer the money into your account (that's how they make their money), but for me, I'll give up less that $4.00 to get my $96 and change within a day or so.

Reply by James Dawson on 10/24/10 1:30pm
Msg #357987

Not quite the answer but I think SC should show the SS that offer to pay via Paypal. That being said, I think companies paying upfront like that are in a hurt for Notaries. Otherwise they would stiff the notaries which is why they have a bad rating in the first place.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/24/10 2:01pm
Msg #357990

I choose not to work with non-payers or super-slow payers - period. I don 't want to work with any company that has that kind of reputation, I don't care if they will pay with PayPal or not. I choose not to help them stay in business. I'm busy enough right now with GOOD paying companies that I don't need to even think about wasting my time with the bad ones.

Dynamic Field Solutions was offering immediate payment via Instapay if the notary would accept a reduced fee - someone recently reported that they accepted the Instapay option, completed the signing, but still no payment from Dynamic via Instapay. Hmmm.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/24/10 5:01pm
Msg #358011

Honorable, Copper.

"I choose not to help them stay in business."

I feel the same way. I don't find flaws in those who do, but for me, it's the right thing to do.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/24/10 4:29pm
Msg #358006

thats why i have the debit card. i take it out right away n

its not linked to my biz checking at all. but if not the sellers protection stills covers u.

Reply by BestFlCloser on 10/24/10 4:52pm
Msg #358007

I have PayPay debit card also n/m

Reply by BestFlCloser on 10/24/10 4:56pm
Msg #358009

Re: I have PayPay debit card also

I meant to say that I remove the money right away. If the payment is refused, then PayPal will go after them. It's just like bouncing a check. Once you get notification that the payment is in your PayPal account, use the debit card to do a withdrawal or pay a bill with the debit card. PayPay will not accept payments from deadbeats.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 10/24/10 5:10pm
Msg #358015

Re: thats why i have the debit card. i take it out right away n

Seller's protection on Paypal only applies to tangible items, not services (unless they changed the rules).

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/25/10 6:10am
Msg #358061

whups, seller protection doesn't cover services rendered

However, Chargeback Fraud can occur if a SS wants to reverse the charges for whatever reason....

I use contracts for all of the services I provide. The contract protects me and the buyer. It specifically states what services I am going to provide, in detail, when, where and how much the services will cost the buyers.

I make sure I get a written signature on all contracts BEFORE I proceed to provide ANY service.

With SS, a contract is not necessarily needed because, the service we are providing is a closing, and the loan is going to either close or not. As long as the nsa has proof that they did the closing, copy of signed HUD by borrowers/sellers, or a signature affidavit or something like that, that could be considered proof that the nsa did its job, which was to assist with the closing of a loan.

If the scum bag SS wants to reverse charges, then submitting your proof as listed above or any other type of proof that the services were rendered, will usually allow the Seller to win their case in any chargeback disputes.

NOT legal advice, bla bla, etc etc. Just the way I run my businesses....

Reply by PAW on 10/25/10 7:01am
Msg #358064

Re: whups, seller protection doesn't cover services rendered

>>> As long as the nsa has proof that they did the closing, copy of signed HUD by borrowers/sellers, or a signature affidavit or something like that, that could be considered proof that the nsa did its job, which was to assist with the closing of a loan. <<<

Are you saying you keep copies of the HUD and/or other documents from the signing? If so, I submit that this is not a good practice at all. (It may even be construed as a violation of the Privacy Act.)

If you need proof, you have your confirmation, and any other correspondence, and a signed record in your journal. Getting the signer's signature in your journal of events is pretty good proof, in my estimation, that you performed the job.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/25/10 7:23am
Msg #358066

Yes PAW I agree...however, for SS that pay me via PP

I do hold on to that HUD just a little longer than usual, while their payment is in process...once confirmed, the HUD is shredded.

And honestly, I've not run across any law where it specifically states that we have to immediately destroy BO's docs after the closing, though its common practice to do so.

If there is such a law please forward, for I truly do not know of any and am perhaps having a brain fart...LOL...

Reply by PAW on 10/25/10 9:59am
Msg #358085

Re: Yes PAW I agree...however, for SS that pay me via PP

>>> And honestly, I've not run across any law where it specifically states that we have to immediately destroy BO's docs after the closing, though its common practice to do so. <<<

I agree that there isn't a law, per se, about having to destroy files immediately after closing. However, the Privacy Act is far reaching. If you keep personal and/or financial identifying information, it must be safeguarded as outlined in the Act. I don't know of too many NSA's who can comply with the measures stated in the Act. As a mortgage broker, my 'office' was inspected to ensure the I instituted and maintained the proper security of personal and financial information.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 10/24/10 5:08pm
Msg #358014

The customer can cancel the transaction even after the money has transferred to your account - which is why it's advisable to set up a separate bank account for Paypal transactions and sweep the money out as quickly as possible. Paypal can't take back what isn't there...

Whether you were wrong for turning the job down really depends on your risk tolerance. My gut feel is that any company who paid via Paypal and then reversed the transaction would quickly find themselves with few or no notaries willing to work with them for anything less than a cashier's check in advance. The other thing to keep in mind is that you pay a fee to Paypal for receiving funds, so you never get the full amount. I would tack on 3% to cover that - why should you have to pay for the fact that the customer has a lousy payment history?

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 10/24/10 5:31pm
Msg #358022

I agree w/ Copperhead & Brenda: Why help them stay in

business? Some unsuspecting notary WILL get screwed! Plus what happens if you're really busy or can't get fds out right away ? Then YOU'RE screwed! Better to help them drive themselves out of business. The loans will still be there - they'll just go to decent, honest SS or directly to us (more money :-) ). Who needs those kind of games - this is serious - it's our livelihood. Dance with the devil & sooner or later you get burned!

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/25/10 7:38am
Msg #358067

I just don't care how others are running their business...

I used to when I first started out, but I guess over time, my thinking has become more focused and business oriented and less focused their bottom line or how others are unethically running and ruining their own biz. IMO, and in the end, for me anyway, the end always justifies the means. (pardon the consequentialism pun)

These SS will eventually go out of business and it'll be the end of them...(sometimes)

So in the mean time, if they call me, and agree to my fee and pay me in advance via PP, then I'm going to do the job. Simple and keeps me in business.

Reply by HKT_TX on 10/27/10 3:16pm
Msg #358482

The fee can be paid by the sender or receiver. I received payment from a SS that deducted a 3% fee, but I have received money personally and the fee was charged to the sender, but only because he used a credit card to pay. I have personally sent money from my bank account and there were no fees either way. However, this may have to do with having a personal versus business account.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/24/10 7:13pm
Msg #358030

I recommend Google Checkout

Open a merchant account with Google Checkout. Google Checkout direct deposits the money right to your account (checking or savings) within 48 hours. No need for a separate debit card to "snatch" the money out of some middle account - helps you avoid that game altogether.

http://checkout.google.com/sell/?gsessionid=iYm1smiej5E

Paypal plays games - they "freeze" accounts due to "suspicious activity", for which they never specify what the suspicious activity actually is. Save yourself a headache and avoid their nonsense.

Reply by Ti/Ga on 10/25/10 9:59am
Msg #358086

Re: I recommend Google Checkout

I have GOOGLE CHECKOUT ...NO issues or holding your money.....