Posted by bowie_MD on 10/27/10 9:01pm
Msg #358523
your views appreciated on non payment by TC
I do a lot of work for a large TC and have never had any issues
One screw up and they refuse to pay me, period.
YES I messed up. The wife did not sign the RTC or TIL and I missed it.
TC called and said I would have to to out and get them dated and by the way you will not be paid for this closing. Not just the return trip but the original signing.
The agreement I signed says nothing about non payment for this type error.
The Confirmation of Closing says, "Failure to adhere to these terms* and our agreed upon Service Level Agreement may result in a decrease of your closing fee.
*execute at time designated and contact TC after closing
But nowhere does it state non payment of entire fee for missed dates
The end result of this error was the borrower had to date the RTC and TIL and the loan funded as scheduled.
YES I messed up. But does it deserve non payment when terms of agreement never addressed this?
Thanks for your views.
Mike
| Reply by Pat/IL on 10/27/10 9:32pm
Msg #358525
"Failure to adhere to these terms* and our agreed upon Service Level Agreement may result in a decrease of your closing fee."
That's a pretty ambiguous sentence right there. If this is your first error and you are now subject to the maximum penalty, you should now be clear that no errors are tolerated, or somebody has got a Napolean complex and is taking out a bad day on you.
The way you were told that you would not be paid for either the original signing, nor the effort to correct, was arrogant. And it shows a disrespect for you as a business partner. It seems more like a parent witholding a child's allowance because a chore was not done properly.
You corrected the error, and you should be compensated for the original signing. Any reduction in your fee should be directly in proportion to costs incurred by your error (i.e. additional courier fees).
| Reply by LKT/CA on 10/27/10 9:40pm
Msg #358526
The penalty is probably heavy because the docs missed are considered MAJOR. The TIL and RTC are not low level, CYA docs that may or may not matter......these two docs really MATTER in the signing and because you're an experienced Notary who has completed lots of work for this TC, the bar is much higher for you.
You could do one of two things: (a) take a stand on principle, fight for payment and lose the relationship; or (b) go out and get the docs signed on your dime, then let this go as a loss in hopes of saving a long standing relationship. The former may be viewed as self righteous and arrogant and the latter may be viewed as humbling and repentant. Good luck.
| Reply by MW/VA on 10/27/10 9:42pm
Msg #358527
IMO we all make a mistake from time to time. I can see that they would have you correct it on your dime, including shipping. To not pay you at all is absurd. It sounds like it's a large acct. for you, so you will need to decide if it's worth it to take the hit to keep a good relationship with them. I've just never heard of anything so harsh from a tc. I'm guessing they're dealing with a lot of errors lately.
| Reply by James Dawson on 10/27/10 11:42pm
Msg #358545
LKT and MW are correct.
Because of past experience, I will NOT sign any agreements so you can just imagine I've cut one of my legs off by making this decision.
I'm totally relax with my decison because I truly only do what I want. This is not my only source of income so I am able to be picky. It also may be something you don't what to consider. However, there are CC/TC out there who only want to get the job done, "error free" and could care less about your philosophy. That's who I want to work for.
If you made a mistake, correct it and use it as a learning experience. I once (well really more than once haha) made a mistake by signing Docs three days before the date on the docs, I TRUSTED the TC,SS and the person sending me the docs to send them when there where suppose to and correct. I went back out on my own dime but I learned, DO NOT TRUST anybody to give you perfect Docs or all the Docs.
Get to know what should be in the loan package, how it's suppose to be and where it comes from, whose responsible for what and I promise you that you will limit you mistakes to "forgetting to dot the i! Good luck.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 10/28/10 12:42am
Msg #358550
I think they're wrong. I also think your choice is easy.
You said it in the first line - you do a lot of work for them. It's lousy that they don't want to pay you for the closing, but do you want to battle with them over it and possibly lose them as a client, or do you want to take the small hit and move on with them. If they've been an otherwise good client, I think the choice is clear.
| Reply by ReneeK_MI on 10/28/10 5:07am
Msg #358555
one thing confuses me
You said the wife didn't sign the RTC or TIL, but then you said "end result...borrower had to date the RTC & TIL and loan funded as scheduled."
My confusion aside - one key factor is that we're at EOM. Turns the dial all the way up on frazzled nerves, frustration, long hours, loss of patience, etc.
Yes, we are all human, we all make mistakes (both sides of the phone). HOW we deal with our mistakes - not just in our actions, but in our responses & demeanor and in our rate of errors - matters much.
Might be you hit the wrong person at the wrong time; might be your tone pushed them over the cliff; might be your error rate caused this one to be that one last straw. If they refused to pay every person for every loan with an error, they'd soon have an empty database of NSA's. The question then is WHY did you get treated this way, what made this so 'special'?
I absolutely agree with the majority here - if you want to keep the client, practice some humility, eat the fee w/out debate and get it fixed immed. If you want to lose the client - debate pymt, argue contract verbiage, meet their animosity with more animosity. Ultimately, you could even pursue pymt through legal means. Your choice.
If you order a steak in a fancy restaurant and it arrives over-cooked, you can send it back and they'll do another one for you. You don't pay for both, but yes you'll probably pay for one. Or, they might extend their humility to you by apologizing via an 'on the house' steak, hoping you'll continue as a customer that has warm fuzzies for them.
| Reply by CopperheadVA on 10/28/10 6:18am
Msg #358559
Like Renee mentioned, I was confused as to if the wife did not sign those docs or if she just failed to date those docs?
I think I know which company this is, although I could not find the sentence you quoted in their Service Level Agreement.
I agree it sucks that they won't pay you at all for the closing (and I believe that is wrong of them to impose that), but IF they were giving me a lot of work, I guess I would suck it up and continue to reap the income from the relationship.
| Reply by Les_CO on 10/28/10 9:57am
Msg #358582
Unless the Title Company refunded a portion of their ‘closing costs’ or ‘notary fees’ to the borrower they need to pay your agreed upon fee. If not I’d file a complaint with the MD Insurance Administration, and HUD. I see charging the borrower a fee for work done by someone else and then keeping that fee for themselves as a RESPA violation.
You did say that you no longer wish to do business with these folks? If not I’d just smile and say sorry, and eat it.
| Reply by SharonMN on 10/28/10 10:34am
Msg #358591
If you think you are going to continue to do business with these guys, I'd eat this one in the interest of customer service/saving the relationship.
If you do NOT intend to do business with them again, I'd probably just say they can get somebody else to do the repeat trip if they don't intend to pay you at all.
If the job got done, you should get paid. I could see if the original notary was totally incompetent, and they had to send somebody else out to resign it, not paying the incompetent notary, but in this case you fixed your error.
If a plumber came to your house to fix your sink, and you called him back the next day because it was still leaking and said you weren't paying him for the previous day's work or the fix, I doubt he'd show up to finish the repair.
| Reply by Frank/NC on 10/28/10 10:44am
Msg #358594
Only my thoughts but if you do a lot of work for them it just might be good if you sucked this one up and try not to destroy the relationship that puts money in your pocket. I think that a lot of the companies just get fed up with the shoddy work they get. The problem is that with the one error that you made, you end up paying the price. I think that I would try as best I can to salvage the relationship.
| Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 10/28/10 12:09pm
Msg #358612
IMO, the TC has a legal obligation to pay you for
services you rendered, regardless of any mistakes made. The fact that you corrected the mistake, on your own dime~n~time, says alot about your good character....sadly, there are nsa's that would've just let this go, but you didn't. You took responsibility, corrected the mistake, and delivered the finish product.
If the TC 'decreases' your fee, say to the equivalent of any extra shipping costs, less $25-$35 I think that's fair. However, to outright NOT pay you at all because of the error, is very wrong, and illegal.
Remedies to consider (not legal advice, bla bla):
*call the lender and let them know what happened. They may put some pressure on the TC, to pay you, and I wouldn't worry about being blacked balled since they probably wouldn't hire you again, anyway.
*send an invoice, with YOUR terms for payment clearly spelled out. I'd send out the invoice via certified mail, return receipt requested. That way, when the green card comes back to you, you have proof that they received your invoice/letter (which could be used later in court)
*if TC continues ignoring your invoice, then send it to a collection agency. Might have to pay a small fee, but sometimes its worth it if it means you have any chance at getting paid.
*if TC ignores collection action, time to consider filing a complaint against them in small claims court. Not only can you ask for your fee, but any collections fees you paid, plus current and future attorney fees related to the case, (if u use one) as well as any court fees or costs incurred with the filing of the lawsuit.
I'm betting that after getting a formal complaint, with a case number on it, that TC may just settle with you.
Just remember to keep in mind that its the principal here that matters. You did a service for them, and they need to pay you...bottom line.
Good luck to you.
| Reply by bowie_MD on 10/28/10 8:22pm
Msg #358650
Re: IMO, the TC has a legal obligation to pay you for
thank you all for your comments on this issue
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