Posted by npross on 9/26/10 10:54pm
Msg #354228

Fees/ $85 VS $100

A Lot of talk lately about what a low fee is:

Look at it this way. Do you want 2 jobs at $80/$85 or one job at $100? simple math. The more work you want, the more competitive you must be. my high volume clients get a bigger discount and I get the 1st call. This week I've done 12 signings for one company in 3 days at $85. If my fee was $100, I would have lost most of those jobs and would only have been called for orders that NO one else was available. If you want 1st priority and if you want to be the 1st call, then lower your fees. Everyone is so hush, hush about their fees. But face it, if you charge $100, you are the last person the call on their list. I'd rather have 10 $85 signings, then 2 $100 signings. Others have clearly disagreed with me in the past. I don't care. My clients tell me that the lower fee signing agents get the call 1st.
Something to think about.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/26/10 11:45pm
Msg #354229

It's been explained before... it's a simple issue of business math. It's not just about covering expenses, but meeting a profit margin in order to meet one's goals. "High Volume" is essentially meaningless in this industry -- your expenses aren't going to change enough to make up for it with volume.

In order to be successful with "high volume" you have to control your expenses, too. Do you have a "high volume" purchasing deal with your neighborhood fuel pump? Likely not. Do you purchase enough office supplies every year to qualify for volume discounts? Some might... I know I don't -- Staples requires $50,000 a year of spending to qualify for their program.

Some of us cover areas that are very large and have to do a LOT of driving. Some of us live in areas where things just cost more in general -- from obtaining our commissions, to business licenses and insurance, etc. Do signing services and title companies care about that? Nope.. they just offer a blanket amount.

Some of us need a specific profit margin in order to work -- some of us are pert-time and only need a few extra dollars for "beer money" or fun stuff. Others of us need to actually pay our light bills and feed our families --- that's what a profit margin is meant for.

I readily take lower paying jobs....sometimes... when the situation is right. for example if the location is super close by, my vehicle and time expenses will be less, so I could reasonable take a lower fee and still maintain my profit margin.

12 jobs at $85 is a total of $1,020. Now, I've never had the *total* time (including printing an travel) be less than 2 hours on a job, so let's be overly (seriously) generous and call it 24 hours of work. That's $42.50 an hour.

BUT... you can't take that number and think like a regular employee. It doesn't work that way for most of is.

First, taxes. You're looking at 1/3 of that gone in taxes alone. Now you're down $700.

Now take out your other expenses for those 12 trips... paper, toner, time, gas, wear and tear, insurance, other office supplies, cell phone minutes, etc.

Remember, that expenses for all 12 trips... let's just be really general and say you have about $35 of expenses per trip - not including your time. That's a wild guess, of course. You have to figure out your own expenses, but I'd be willing to bet it's right around that. That's another $420.

Now you've got $280 left... about $23.33 per job after expenses and taxes, and roughly $11.67 per hour profit *if* you only spend 2 hours total on each job -- which I don't think is reasonable at all. I think the average is more like 3 hours per job, possibly 4 (or more), when you count everything (scheduling, travel, printing, meeting with borrowers, packaging, return of docs and waiting on accounts receivable).

If you spend 3 hours total on each job... that's $7.78 an hour of net profit. 4 hours? You're down to $5.83.

Federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Now, granted, that's before taxes... but you get where I'm going here. You can't support a family on that, much less run your own business.

The IRS will get on you if they determine you are not attempting to run your business with a profit in mind.

See Msg #320673 that I posted earlier this year about this. This notary was audited by the IRS and her business deductions were disallowed because they determined what she was doing was a HOBBY and not a profitable business.

Seriously... if you have done your homework and honestly detailed and examined your expenses and profit needs, and you can still charge $85 a job on a consistent basis and maintain your profit goals, than all power to you. The reality is that most of us cannot do it.

I submit that the vast majority of NSAs who are taking the lower paying jobs are part-timers looking for "beer money" or have very little (if any) business acumen. I'm sure most of them don't even have a business plan, or would know how to even write one if they needed it.

I don't try to compete with the notaries in my area who take the lower paying jobs. I know who they are... but they don't register much unless I get a call asking me to clean up their mess.

My husband said it's like somebody who wants Gorton fish sticks for dinner, but calling Eric Ripert to put them in the oven for you.

Reply by Cari on 9/27/10 12:46am
Msg #354232

Marian, very well said but absolutely useless to the OP...

For me, those that accept those low pitiful fees, are like voluntarily participants in a Pavlov experiment!

If you train a NSA to drool on command, its an example of a conditioned reflex. Ivan Pavlov's description of how NSA's can be trained by the low ball paying companies, to respond in a certain way to a particular stimulus, $, paved the way for a new method of how to low ball the NSA profession!

The object is to train Pavlovs' NSA's to respond to a signal that it will associate with being fed. Choose the right signals with their $'s, and the low ball paying companies will be successful!

Its unfortunate that this once highly respectable profession is not only steadily on the decline, but will continue to do so not because of the economy anymore, but because of low ball paying companies seeking to undercut our profession, AND those low ball notaries that are lured or suckered into believing that 'volume' discounting is better than nothing!

I see the future base fee norm for a single refi starting at $45!

Reply by desktopfull on 9/27/10 1:01am
Msg #354238

And we can thank the useless NNA for starting the low ball

fees being offered when they put out their recommended fee schedule to the TC's. I know they were only looking out for the notaries best interest when they backstabbed all of us with that lowball fee schedule they circulated.

Reply by npross on 9/27/10 1:09am
Msg #354241

Re: And we can thank the useless NNA for starting the low ball

I don't think it has anything to do with NNA. We are still in a recession and people are unemploed and anyone who has kids would love a job that pays $200, $300 or $400 per day. It's all about supply and demand. If you have 40 signing agents fighting for 10 signings on a Monday then someone will lower thir fee to get te job. Think about it, do you call the most expensive contractor, or do you shop around? Do you buy the designer jeans at nordstroms at $100 or do you go to macys and get a 20% discount? Its all because if competition

Reply by npross on 9/27/10 1:12am
Msg #354242

Re: And we can thank the useless NNA for starting the low ball

Well, like it or not, but this pays my mortgage and sen my kids to school

Reply by Cari on 9/27/10 11:22am
Msg #354314

Pays your mortgage & sends your kids to school - barely! n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 9/27/10 1:16am
Msg #354245

Re: And we can thank the useless NNA for starting the low ball

Haven't been around long have you? The NNA started passing around their lowballing schedule long before this recession. Go back and read this forum.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 4:38am
Msg #354256

Better is not always cheaper & Cheaper is not always better

Npross, respectfully, I have to point out what I think may be some major flaws with your jeans theory. ( Msg #354241 )

{* $150 vrs $75 is a 50% discount -- a 20% discount would be $120}

You are assuming that both places:
1) have the exact same pair of jeans for sale at vastly different prices 40-50%+ difference in price* (and both will provide the same quality, comfort, level of 'service' and 'knowledge')
2) are in fact located next door to each other (so the travel is exactly the same)
3) and that both pair of jeans are one size fits all



A knowledgeable SA, with a high level of skills in multiple areas including, but not limited to, customer service, attention to detail, professionalism, willingness to see that the borrower(s) questions are answered to their satisfaction, the knowledge and people skills to ensure that their job performance has actually added to, rather than lowered, the borrower(s) overall opinion of the company they have chosen to trust with, what is for most people, the largest single monetary transaction they have ever or may ever make is one kind of SA.

That SA knows that what they bring to the table is worth what they are asking people to trade for the fee they are charging.

Women aren't willing to pay $2K+ for a real Prada bag because it will hold more than a brown paper bag one might find at a local grocery store checkout counter. There is something to be said for quality and reliability.


Now a notary that may show up 'when they get finished with the kids basketball game', show up in sweats, doesn't even bother to view any ID, shoves the papers in front of the borrower while impatiently holding the corner so they can yank it out and replace it with another one, all the while repeating "sign there” or "initial here", doesn't have the slightest clue what a HUD or TIL is, and couldn't explain the difference between an APR and a Note Rate when the borrower(s) asks so they say something like "you got 3 days to call your lender and have them tell you the difference, now sign here so I can get back to my kids pizza party". The kind of notary that is in such a hurry they miss signatures, don't ensure the borrower(s) even sign the docs properly or even at all, partly because they don't know what they are doing (lack of knowledge)and partly because they just don't give a rip. After all, it's only XX and that's beer money anyway (never mind that when all the true expenses are added up the signing cost them out of pocket XX-$5 or $10 and they realize this is their true profit after page 80 of the 150+ page doc set). The type of notary that when they rush out of the borrower(s) house the borrower(s) are literally thinking, "WTF have we done? This company (the lender) cannot be as good as we thought."

Now that notary, masquerading as a SA, doesn't know the first thing about being a SA, business or real profit margin. They are the ones stealing from their 'full time' employer using their computers, printers and paper to subsidize their "other" job. (I leave the morals question on that section alone) They have no idea what a professional fee for the truly important job of a SA should be. They think the $50-65 is awesome pay for only 30 minutes of work (oh yeah, they bought into that lie as well) Now THAT notary is worth less than the $5-10 "profit" they "earned".

The quality of dollar store furniture is a far cry from that of furniture from Ethan Allen. Again, there is a reason for the price difference between the two.


I learned a long time ago that in sales, you get what you ask for. If you ask for one price (normal fee) then quickly accept a 50% discount or worse offer that amount even before the buyer has said a word, you will get just what you ask for, the blue light special pay for your full service quality.


Travel to the X number of closings I would have to accept at the lower price to earn the same for the number of signings preformed at my regular fee not only add cost to my auto and other fees (been stated on the board many, many times over) but one other thing that I don't think I have every added is that quite literally the more time I place myself behind the wheel and on the road statistically increases my chances for accidents or worse. Former life insurance agent thoughts seeping in a bit. Yeah, I know, some will think, that's just crazy, tell that to the guy or gal you read about in this morning's local paper that died in an auto accident yesterday. I'm sure they too thought they would make it home as well.

As for me, I turn down the bargain hunters which has literally opened up times that I have accepted other professional offers that I would not have been able to had I been answering my phone as if was the Blue Bat signal sale phone. I would have had to accept anywhere from 5-6 bargain basement offers to make (profit) what I did by knowing that what I offer is worth what I charge. After all, the borrower is STILL paying the same amount if I go or if the less than 'chatty cathy' in sweats shows up.

I'm not saying that my description of the notary above is a description of all people that accept the lower fees. I am saying that some of these middle man companies couldn't care less if it were as long as they accept the low fee and they make their $100-$150 for making a phone call and sending a few emails.

Defiantly, everyone has to run their own business their own way. I guess my issue is that anyone that tells me they are making true profit accepting the $50-65 signings is not truly adding all the true costs in the equation and some have even been on this board touting the "great" revenue of the $50/signing and don't understand others that say they don't make any profit on the $50/signings. Only to expose themselves later on in the thread as a thief that is stealing from their "day job" because they are using others computers, paper, printers, toner, and other material. Or that she bragged about the great pay of 6 or 7 of them in one day, but forgot to acknowledge that they were all in one office 2 miles from her house and all she did was show up, the docs were already printed and several of them were back to back. Yet she was trying to convince others that they should accept these offers even if they had to travel to 6 or 7 different homes in several different counties because they could make a profit.

I'm not saying you are doing this, but for the ones that have done just that while trying to convince others they should be accepting these ridiculously insulting offers, get real! Anyone could make "good" money if they were stealing everything necessary to work this business on a daily basis. duh!

Times are tough, but if you think consistently lower your fees is the answer, let’s ask some of the mom & pop businesses that Wal-Mart put out of business with that strategy how that worked out for them. Maybe we could even leave some of our business cards at their checkout counter......on second thought, probably not.

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 12:20pm
Msg #354329

Simply A Great post IMO n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 12:27pm
Msg #354331

After I posted I realized something VERY

familiar about his "all mine are 15" away from home. He/She/They actually ARE the one I was describing in that post that closed all at a local office. Of course the OP describing all that was under other name(s)

They seem to show up here every few months or so with the same agenda.

Thank you for your compliment, James!

Reply by Cari on 9/27/10 11:20am
Msg #354313

npross you are ridiculous and your logic is absurb!

I guess it doesn't bother you when you see the Notary Fee listed on the HUD as $XXX and you're only getting $XX.... Your hiring party is Bloomingdales and you are Walmart! Wake Up!

And for the love of Pete, STOP using the the economy and recession as an excuse to accept such low ball fees!

There is just NO reasoning for accepting low fees, bottom line. Especially when those that do, have the mentality that volume = more money?? Nice logic! Seems that their brains can't comprehend the truth, therefore, they rationalize accepting such ridiculous low fees by blaming it on the economy, recession, bla bla bla...excuses!

There is NO excuse for contributing to the demise of this once highly respected profession! And that's what all low ballers do, IMHO....

Reply by npross on 9/27/10 12:59am
Msg #354237

I'm not sure how long it takes you, but I can print 2 sets of docs in less then 10 minutes. My signings hardly ever go over 45 minutes and all my app. Are within 15 minutes from my home. Yes I don't live in a rural area, so your time for completion may be a lot longer. I can easily do 6-8 per day. Now tell me, in a regular job, does you employer pay for gas? No! But I can deduct it as my expense. People don't realize how expensive it is to be employed. Now, 5 signings a day at $85 is $425.00.
Now if I even spent 9 hours, that would be $53 per hour, then subtract $25- $50 to print those docs and it's still $375 then subtract a full tank of gas $30, and I still make more than a lot of people that are employed. As an employee I'd still have to pay tax. When your hired at $15 per hour it's not $15 after tax... But it's $15 before tax. You do realize that in California,$10 per signature is exempt from se tax. So if you have 6 signatures, $60 is exempt from se tax. If anyone is spending more than 90 minutes per signing, they should find another hobby

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 9/27/10 1:33am
Msg #354247

"My signings hardly ever go over 45 minutes and all my app. Are within 15 minutes from my home." & "If anyone is spending more than 90 minutes per signing, they should find another hobby"

If you are doing signings and actually fully notarizing at the table and not after you get back home and doing your notary journal--there is no way you are giving the BO(s) time to look over the docs and at least make sure the numbers are correct.

I live in TN (the South) and a 90 minute closing would have the BO(s) calling the LO telling them I was rude and rushed them. A 45 minute closing would have me black balled not only to the LO's and TC's but the entire community.

". . .subtract a full tank of gas $30, . . ."

So you don't change your tires, oil, transmission fluid, spark plugs do tune-ups, or any other maintenance on your car? you must wear them out pretty quickly.

"When your hired at $15 per hour it's not $15 after tax... But it's $15 before tax. You do realize that in California,$10 per signature is exempt from se tax. So if you have 6 signatures, $60 is exempt from se tax."

Do you realize that the Social Security you draw at retirement or disability if, Heaven forbid, something happened to you, is based on how much you pay into the system (and since it appears you don't check and/or replace brake pads on your car either, you are asking for brake failure)? Hope you have a back up retirement funding plan (we all should).

Also, you are only paying SE taxes on $15 of each signing but you will receive full Medicare Benefits at age 65. Wow, I wonder why the system is going bankrupt?

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 9/27/10 1:39am
Msg #354250

I forgot, I can not get more than 5 miles in 15 minutes from my home.

RURAL is the word. According to which part of my county I go to and a couple other counties I cover, I have to avoid horse and buggy, mule and buckboard, tractors, and lots of other things. And the major two lane hwys running through here have posted speed limits of 45 or less and it should be less.

Not to mention, some places I go have no electric and I have to ford creeks, and many of the roads are chirt or some spell it churt. VERY slippery when wet. I literally have to decide if I can drive the car or if I need to take the 4x4.

If I lived in east TN where my son is, I would never do mobile notary work. My hats are off to every mobile anything in Grainger County TN!!!! 9My son is a mobile mechanic there.)

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/27/10 2:20am
Msg #354255

"You do realize that in California,$10 per signature is exempt from se tax. So if you have 6 signatures, $60 is exempt from se tax."


No... not entirely. Up to $10 per signature is the fee we can charge per signature. It may or may not be what we enter in our journals for the transaction. I do mine entirely differently. Besides, the SE tax exemption is just a small portion of your overall tax liability.

And the SE tax exemption is an option that I choose not to take. I've detailed my reasons for this here before, but taking the SE exemption is not always the wisest route to go, and could actually be financially devastating if you become disabled and don't have an adequate plan in place to cover your needs.

"If anyone is spending more than 90 minutes per signing, they should find another hobby."

I've never spent less than 2... and this isn't a "hobby" for me. I'm a professional. The time frame I note includes EVERYTHING involved from initial phone to receipt of payment. And if you're spending just 90 minutes total on that, I think you've probably got quality control issues like none other.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 5:39am
Msg #354259

2 people working but only counting as one for time & costs?

Before I get started let me say, I have no issue with family working together, spouses or anyone. My beef in this post is that you have attempted to make your business out as something it is not and compare your business with "freebie" help (only "free" because you don't count costs like a normal business does) to what is for the most part sole proprietorship. Not even close to the same thing.

It seems that you and your wife are a team, Great! BUT don't come here and basically have what amounts to a non-paid employee(s) (since she also accepts signings) and tell us that you can do all this bull and make a profit. If I had other people working and didn't pay them I'd make a profit too. Be honest and actually count her time (if she is full time then count her as such and take out the pay you would have to pay someone else to do what she does including farming out signings). Also, is she the one with the office connection that is only a few minutes from your home and that is why most of your signings are only 15 min away from your home?

Let's be honest here! You are not the type of operation that most of us are and you know that, yet you start in with this BS (and is is BS because you are not being honest) about how great $80 signings are and how more of us should be accepting them. Give me a break. Free labor? You don't understand business at all because you don't have a clue what your TRUE expenses really are.

Someone else printing docs while you are at a closing is NOT the same as a single SA (person) working this business as most of us are. You wouldn't be able to accept all the low ball offers if you had to do everything yourself.

You've previously stated that you won't fax back anything either. ( Msg #347658 ) & (Msg #347668) Wow! Corner cut, but time saved where others are willing to actually do what is requested of them, however, they happen to charge for their services up front. Oddly enough, this is one area I'll agree with you on. Low ball fee, gets low ball service (as far as the 'extras' go is what I mean) No bells or whistles with a fee fit for General Notary work.

In Msg #347668 you also let everyone know that you have your own, non accounted for thus non-paid as far as costs counting goes when it comes to actual profit, collections department in house. I know that a lot of us would be able to do more if "WE" were not having to be the people chasing down deadbeats. Again, you weren't being honest with your posts and when others pointed out that you, alone, could not actually do all that you said you did, you didn't fess up.

You have a lot of nerve telling others that if they take ## amount of time to close loans that they need a new hobby.

* "• “ She basically gives a borrower a "choice" you come to my house for $50 or I go to yours and charge $100-$125." *
What a difference a month makes You posted this - 8/5/10 2:13am (Msg #347669)

Here is another one where you state you DON'T accept low offers "at EOM" Msg #354081 -- So which one is it? On this thread and others you are shouting about how good it is to accept lower fees. "Flexible" is the word you used.



Msg #347342 - "Signing agents that are flexible with fees, that work late and drive an extra mile or so, have the bulk of the work. think about it--not saying anything, or telling anyone how to run their business but that's the reality. "
REALLY? THAT'S REALITY? Seems to me signing agents that lie about having employees they don't pay then try to rally the rest of us into accepting these low ball offers doesn't even know what reality is!

Give me a break!

I say charge what you know you are worth and stick to your fees and forget about BS posing posters like this guy.

Do what you have to for your business, but don't this pack of lies discourage you from charging what you know you are worth and what you know you have to have to make a profit. NOT his kind of fake unicorn profit (the kind that doesn't exist) but REAL Profit.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 5:44am
Msg #354260

Boy YOU'VE GOT SOME NERVE!

"find another hobby"

Telling other people here that are actually being honest and telling you what you are flat out being DISHONEST about that they have a hobby, not a business.

YOU LIE TO MAKE YOUR FANTASY NUMBERS 'WORK'. FREE LABOR = A HOBBY!

Reply by Roger_OH on 9/27/10 10:14am
Msg #354291

BUT you STILL have to pay INCOME taxes...

Federal for sure, and state/local if applicable, ALL the income is taxable.

Even though some may be SE exempt, as wisely pointed out, you may want to strongly consider not taking that exemption.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 9/27/10 1:04am
Msg #354239

I totally agree.

Frankly, I sometimes wonder if these posts are not made by employees of SS or TC doing a little trolling.

And another one for the books-I have a friend that complains about not getting enough NSA work--I can find no place they have ever advertised. I did see one loan they printed out, in a folder (did not actually see the wording on the paper), they insisted it was a full re-fi all on letter size paper and both sets was less than a half-inch thick.

I once asked this person what docs a non-borrowing spouse had to sign and the only one they knew of was the NOTE!!!!

The also only charge $50-$75.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Reply by 101livescan on 9/27/10 8:24am
Msg #354266

Marian, I and others like you, couldn't agree with you more. I won't accept anything under $100, especially with edocs. I won't work for minimum wage. My time is valuable. Let my competition undercut me and take signings for $50 and $75, that leaves the meatier work for me. I'm watching while two low balls cos in our business lure the full time employed part time notaries to work for them (the notaries print their docs at their place of employment and take time off to do the work, try to change the time of the signing with the client to accommodate them!). I'm over thinking or grueling about their model. I like mine better. I don't do just one signing a day, I'm doing more like 6 a day on the average, and I can't justify doing this biz for $85 a signing. With all the tools and supplies needed to do this job well, even though we're in a recession, the costs are the same if not more. I'm more involved with my business than most of my competition. It is not a hobby, or a game. I'm way more serious about making a profit and staying on the radar screen. I do a lot of work for title companies who have been coming back to me for years, and there's a reason for it. I do great work for them and my fees are completely acceptable and fairly set. I don't know how $85 notaries can stay in business for long.

Reply by desktopfull on 9/27/10 12:56am
Msg #354236

I posted this below, but since you moved topic here

Why would I want to work for free just to get work? Hey in 2001 $85 wasn't bad for an edoc closing starting out. Paper was $28.00 a case for legal & $18.00 for letter. Gas was around $1.39 or less a gallon. Toner was $6.25 a bottle for a refill. Costs are double or triple that now. Plus the companies want background checks and $100,000.00 or higher E&O policies which have increased our costs for maintaining our notary commissions. Go ahead and work for minimum wage or less, I'm not interested in working for free or at least next to that, you might as well work for McDonald's or Burger King at least you get benefits.

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 1:14am
Msg #354244

A different take on the subject. I turn down everyone of those jobs figuring someone else will take them. Now that they're all busy, that leaves me available for the better paying jobs since everyone is booked!

BTW we have bridge tolls 4$ - $6 dollars and toll roads to deal with in this area so where the signing is must be taking into account and SS could care less.

Reply by npross on 9/27/10 1:17am
Msg #354246

James, seriously? $6 bridge? Yeah, I'd raise my fee. Also from what I hear traffic is bad in Los Angeles area. And if it take you 40 minutes to drive 10 miles then I'd charge more too. I have no traffic (most time) and no brig tolls. I normally do the majority of work on my city

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 1:37am
Msg #354248

Yep....If I were to make a business decision to restrict my signings to my city I might be able to do a few at $85 (if it was just one signer for instance). I just looked at my last twenty signings and only seven where in my city with the average distance traveled about twenty miles (3 gals gas round trip). A person can accept what they want, that's okay I don't have a problem with that. It's that offering of the fee when you know how much they're being paid to make a phone call is what a have a problem with. Getting $175 and paying $85 for not even having a "product" just isn't fair in my opinion.

Reply by Stoli on 9/27/10 1:55am
Msg #354252

Geez James, do you drive a Bradley tank? < 10/gallon? n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 2:02am
Msg #354253

Re: Geez James, do you drive a Bradley tank? < 10/gallon?

No I drive a Lexus with a 18 ft trailer filled with silver dollars....Stoli 40 / 3 = 13 that's in traffic

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 9/27/10 10:15am
Msg #354292

Re: Fees/...toll roads are a choice... n/m

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/27/10 11:43am
Msg #354320

Not if you go from Oaklnd to SF!

Are you suggesting that James should swim to SF? LOL! How will he keep the docs dry?

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 12:11pm
Msg #354327

Re: Not if you go from Oaklnd to SF!

Shoshana she discounts just about everything I post, just ignore her she has a hidden agenda.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 9/27/10 12:52pm
Msg #354336

Shoshana: I was referring to Road tolls being by choice.

Naturally to go from Oakland to San Francisco, one needs to cross the bridge and pay a toll but James referred to road tolls in the bay area adding to the cost of signings. I was merely saying the road tolls are a choice.

Stephanie

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 9/27/10 1:11pm
Msg #354339

Re: Shoshana: I was referring to Road tolls being by choice.

When did they add the toll roads? I knew they were talking about it when I left in Jan 2006.
Besides, would you rather spend 2 hours in traffic or 15 minutes on the toll road?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 12:37pm
Msg #354332

So is adding the cost to your fees...One I would make... n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 9/27/10 1:50pm
Msg #354345

No - toll roads are not a choice...

In many cities w/toll roads, the choice is to save time by not being in traffic. Some places actually have rush hour several times a day, for great stretches of time. The choice is to take and do several signings vs. not taking and doing perhaps only one signing.

You betcha - someone has got to pay. Not me - unless it is factored into my quoted price that is met without dickering for bargain rates. I quote, you pay. I am fair so encounter few obstacles to the extra charge.

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 1:53pm
Msg #354346

Re: No - toll roads are not a choice...

Correct...two hours in traffic here or 15 mins toll road, heck I'd take the toll road even if I didn't have a signing. Thanks for bringing this up.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/27/10 1:38am
Msg #354249

I vote neither. I'd rather have one job at $150 - $175! But then my cost of living is probably much higher than yours... I don't think you're being realistic about all your costs, though.

Reply by MichiganAl on 9/27/10 1:44am
Msg #354251

Or...look at it this way

I had 26 closings last week. At $100 each, I would have grossed $2600. Let's say you did 26 closings too (although I'm sure that someone with your business sense didn't). At $80, you would have grossed $2080. You spend more time, more driving, more paper, more ink, more printing, more expenses, more everything. So not only do you work more at the end of the week and gross a lot less, but even if you did your 26 closings, after expenses you would net even less.

And I'll tell you something else, those $80 closings are more work, more hand holding, more fussing, more stupid requirements because they keeping dealing with the bottom feeder notaries who keep making mistakes. I can do twice as many closings a day dealing with fair paying, reliable, professional companies than you can working with signing services that only care about finding the cheapest moron to get their closing booked.

But I know that you really won't get any of this. It's too bad that so many notaries really have no concept of what it takes to run a successful business. I've done this full time as my only source of income for over 7 years. I promise you there's not one person who works for $80 that could do this as a full time 100% sole income job and survive for long.

Reply by James Dawson on 9/27/10 2:05am
Msg #354254

Re: Or...look at it this way I agree 100% w/ everything said n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 4:40am
Msg #354257

Ditto! n/m

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/27/10 11:17am
Msg #354310

Same here $100 is the least I do a loan for and thats if it

is in my area and the package is a reasonable size with no fax backs otherwise I would not make a reasonable profit.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 9/27/10 4:41am
Msg #354258

"I promise you there's not one person ..."

Exactly, Alex. NPROSS is NOT one person, but is a husband/wife TEAM (or so he previously stated).

That's one rather key factor he regularly fails to disclose in his seemingly transparent disclosures of dollars and hours and assorted other sundries.

What I find the most intriguing is trying to understand the agenda for these posts from this 'person' (an assumption, since there is no identity). For two years, the posts from NPROSS have been primarily pushing a 'less is more' mantra, and singing the praises of one particular SS - any other forum contributions have been rare.

Alex, how about you volunteer to come sit in my office and do my printing, invoicing, watch my supplies, schedule my closings, take any business we can get to come IN to the office, do Thank You cards and marketing mailers, meet me off the freeway for those last-minute doc printings, wash my socks and cook my dinner and I'll handle the actual mobile signings. Of course, the tax implications would work much better for us if we were married w/children, but maybe if we just discount more, the increased volume would even that out too. Oooh, please, how about we shave off just another $5 and put that increase in profit in a Special Account and before you know it, we'll be taking a trip to Europe?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 5:46am
Msg #354261

I think either He or His wife OR Both actually work for

a TC scheduling loans or some other BS. Defiantly has an agenda.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/10 8:50am
Msg #354269

Re: "I promise you there's not one person ..."

I just love that last paragraph, Renee. Yes, I could do "volume" under those circumstances, too.
LOL

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 9/28/10 1:15am
Msg #354509

Re: "I promise you there's not one person ..."

If NPROSS is a husband wife team and she is not being paid and or paying FICA somehow, I feel for her when retirement comes.

My 1st husband and I ran a profitable construction biz and I did his bookkeeping. We never paid me and so I never paid into the system--after 20 years of that I am in a bad spot when it comes to retirement. And we had a tax adviser.

She had better wake up and smell the roses. Another thing-I am disabled and but can not draw disability because I did not pay enough into the system and SSI is no where enough to live on and I only have utility bills and my cell phone, Internet and TV, and Insurance. So I work two businesses and pray I have enough work left in me to make up for 20 years of stupidity.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 9/27/10 7:23am
Msg #354263

Is $85 your 'one size fits all' fee?

Do you charge additional for distance, fax backs, big packages, or more time consuming loans?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 11:28am
Msg #354316

Claims he refuses to fax anything back.

Of course, in another of his/her post he also claims he only accepts $125 at the EOM, but then in another he/she has their agenda together and every few months they try to convince people to take lower.

Very (and I mean VERY) similar to one several months back that worked on the benefits of accepting $50 (YES $50) signings. They too had an office only 15 min from their house that they did closings in all day long, running errands in between and just handing off the paperwork to the title company personal in the very same office.

He is a Fake! Every few months they stir up this mess and NotRot members offer genuine advice and opinions to someone whose only intention is to trick new people into thinking these low ball offers are profitable. He knows this is an issue that will generate a lot of discussion. His post are filled with contradictions and variations of dollar amounts and levels of service from month to month, but always end the end promotes just how 'easy' it is to be profitable by accepting low ball offers. Doesn't tell anyone during these threads that his and his wife both close loans and they also close for a TC only a few min from their house. Multiple appointments all day, same location I also remember a post in which they bragged about the TC ( or Realtor) prints their packages, they just show up. They will put this info in other random posts but never in the ones that they are trying to convince people that he does all the work by himself and can do all signings in 30 min or so all day long.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 9/27/10 11:36am
Msg #354318

Ahhh..I finally get to use that report button, any one else? n/m

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 9/27/10 11:37am
Msg #354319

Using forum to take advantage of and solicit new notaries.

Click!

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/10 8:43am
Msg #354268

While I don't agree with lower fees, I see your point.

Hey, it's the reason so many people shop at Walmart. They go there for one reason--the low prices.
Also, I don't think we can continue to blame the NNA for low fees. That's old history. Today it's about the changes in the market.
I don't accept fees under $100. I know there's a lot of business I don't get--oh, well. I'm an independent contractor, after all, & don't want to participate in price wars. The big boys, like oil & gas companies, have more profit to play with than I do.

Reply by Les_CO on 9/27/10 9:43am
Msg #354281

Considering this and your previous posts I think you thoroughly qualified to answer this question.

At which would I make more? One $100,000.00 signing thirty miles away, or one hundred thousand signings at $2.00 each ten miles away?

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 9/27/10 9:57am
Msg #354283

U hv 2 wrk 28.224 hr day bc @ $85 u need 2 wrk 1.176x more n/m

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 9/27/10 10:09am
Msg #354289

You do 4 jobs @ $85.00=$340 (all e-docs)....
I do 4 jobs; 1 @ $100 (overnight docs), 2 @ $125 (edocs), 1 @ $150 (edocs)= $500
I am spending less time overall, because one appt is markedly reduced in time, since there is no printing, prep or review ahead of time because overnight docs are at the borrowers.
You would have to agree that I am making alot more money in less time.

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 9/27/10 11:06am
Msg #354308

And ur worth it! 2 bad most don't value themselves or the

service they provide. 9 of 10 e docs are late. Imagine having to pray, prod & plead for ur edocs 1.176x more than now! In the DC metro area, traffic + late docs = headaches & angry BOs x 10! Our horrendous traffic & tempers increase exponentially!

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/27/10 11:43am
Msg #354321

I'll bet we eventually learn

that npross is associated with an AZ SS.
I won't be surprised, as that tactic has been used here ad nauseum.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/27/10 12:22pm
Msg #354330

Snippets of "wisdom" from npross

Msg #347658

Msg #347668

Msg #347669

Msg #347719

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/27/10 3:16pm
Msg #354381

That's my guess, too. n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/27/10 12:45pm
Msg #354334

Your are correct!Work SMARTER for more $ not Harder for less n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 9/27/10 7:40pm
Msg #354462

It's the "lower your fees troll". LOL n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/29/10 12:42am
Msg #354682

Noticed that he hasn't showed back up once exposed! LOL n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 9/29/10 7:17pm
Msg #354792

LMAO...that is ABSOLUTELY NOT true. I do 10+ a week and still charge $XXX.

Ding a ling a ling! It's only going to keep going down...why do you think they're down to about $60 (and declining?)

It's not always what you charge but your work ethic, professionalism, whether or not they like you. I even had two companies in the past couple of weeks pay me MORE than I was confirmed for because of the above mentioned. AND they said I would be their first call.

I have another company that depends on me to be their "Go-To" for difficult clients. They said they know they can count on me to diffuse the situation and everyone comes out looking better and the clients end up feeling better.

So see, under cutting (throat cutting) is not necessarily something you HAVE to do. Karma is a beautiful thing...what comes around, goes around.