Posted by davidK/CA on 9/25/10 4:19pm
Msg #354001

Just curious about number of pages in typical refinance

Today I had a refi that was 170 pages (times two) long. I remember when refi's used to max out at 115-125 pages and now typically they are 150 pages.

Is it just California or are these increases seen elsewhere?

I realize that the HUD-1 is more pages and that there are more "anti-fraud" agreements but is that the reason for more pages or is it sloppy work by the title/escrow companies by including duplicate or triplicate documents (like in todays case four TIL's) and lots of internal lender computations that should not have been included in the package?

I am interested in what is a typical number of page in a typical refinance loan package in your state and maybe what they used to be if they page count has increased over the last few years.

Reply by James Dawson on 9/25/10 4:22pm
Msg #354002

I'm seeing 104 - 125 pages

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/25/10 4:41pm
Msg #354004

I am seeing at least 160 pages x's 2 and not many duplicate

documents. I am going to increase my fee $10 when the docs total more than 250 total. They can take it or leave it.

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/25/10 4:46pm
Msg #354005

More paper, more toner, more time, more notorizations=more $ n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 9/25/10 8:31pm
Msg #354037

I also add at least $15 extra print fee for pages over 140. n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 9/25/10 5:02pm
Msg #354006

Non FHA and VA averages:

5th/3rd 88 pages including title docs
Chase 90-110 including title docs
Citibank 80 pages including docs sometime 20+ depending on title co
BoA 132 (average)
WellsFargo 88-105 not including appraisal which has been showing up more frequently only

FHA
140 +
VA 140-160

Reply by parkerc/ME on 9/25/10 8:03pm
Msg #354034

Lately, BoA's over 150 pgs n/m

Reply by MonicaFL on 9/25/10 9:31pm
Msg #354046

I just did a rm application and it was almost 200 pages!!!!

Reply by Cody on 9/25/10 10:35pm
Msg #354061

yep, i did the actual closing of a rm yesterday after having done the application.....176 pages and they had something messed up so i got to print it 4 times.......yippee....

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 9/25/10 10:40pm
Msg #354063

I just did a RM the other day..Sweet 95 pgs. On the other hand the Refis vary..65-125 pages.

Reply by LKT/CA on 9/25/10 10:54pm
Msg #354066

Last year, I had a reverse mortgage signing - only 88 pages total. I've had refi's with only 70 pages and some nearly 300 pages. There is no "typical" loan package.......they're all different.

Reply by davidK/CA on 9/25/10 11:31pm
Msg #354069

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Unfortunately, as I suspected, the number of pages keeps increasing, particularly in CA.

Now if we would automatically get additional compensation...

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/26/10 2:29am
Msg #354088

I, too, think it depends highly on the package - and all the different players involved. I think in some packages, "they" seem to be throwing in lots more of misc. pages that didn't used to be included in what we're asked to print, e.g. lender's worksheets, tons of broker docs, preliminary title reports, etc. etc. And, of course, it also varies by type of loan. With purchases, we're also bound to see termite reports, inspection reports, etc.

And then there are the packages from those lenders that don't service loans and intend to sell it, if they haven't already. So you have multiple versions of compliance agreements, occupancy aff's, name aff's, etc.

The documents that can directly be related to California laws, however, I believe can probably be counted on one hand (or pretty close... )

Reply by Penney/CA on 9/26/10 2:50pm
Msg #354130

I see so many duplicate documents in packages. I'm curious why. One of my more recent closing had 6 copies of the Right To Cancel.

Reply by Jessica Ward on 9/26/10 3:50pm
Msg #354136

Most of mine run about 115 plus 7-15 pages of title docs..

That said, there's exceptions to every rule, and i did have one a while back hit 300 pages. I about died when I saw it. Called up the SS or TC (I don't remember which) and asked for an add'l $20, which I was given.

Reply by Virginia/PA on 9/26/10 6:05pm
Msg #354179

I have noticed a trend of larger sized packages. I am used to seeing 115 on average. Now I'd say average I see is 150 and sometimes higher. Had one with over 200 pages recently. That was ridiculous. Many duplications of like information. Someone must not have anything else to do than to think up a new form that only differs slightly from a previous one and then decides to keep both in the package.

Reply by Virginia/PA on 9/27/10 11:40pm
Msg #354502

I have noticed a trend of larger sized packages. I am used to seeing 115 on average. Now I'd say average I see is 150 and sometimes higher. Had one with over 200 pages recently. That was ridiculous. Many duplications of like information. Someone must not have anything else to do than to think up a new form that only differs slightly from a previous one and then decides to keep both in the package.