Posted by Stoli on 9/8/10 10:01am
Msg #351865
Please weigh in on NNA
I sincerely hope you will consider sending an e-mail regardless of your State.
For the record, I have NO issue with anyone who WANTS to be a member of NNA.
My attorney sister tells me to always add, “….in my opinion”, so consider it said.
Some will disagree, but these MY thoughts on the matter.
California is the national leader on most matters, and so the saying goes, “As goes California, so goes the nation.” Further divided, northern California is often heard saying that we are only the tail on the Sovereign State of Los Angeles.
The absolutely brilliant, strategic maneuver to establish precedent at the head of the beast guarantees successful expansion to other municipalities and states. Los Angeles, the commerce center for California, will lead the nation. If the NNA is successful in Los Angeles, the rest of the nation will follow.
Each of us must decide, individually, our position on the NNA and act accordingly. That’s the given. We individually we have the RIGHT to shop, compare and choose an affiliation or membership with any professional organization---OR NOT.
I, for one, and I can only speak for myself, don’t warm up to forced compliance or affiliation of any kind, and in particular, through backdoor, strong-arm tactics. Truly, I fear the loss of personal freedom of choice.
Many, many posts on the board lament the “low ball” fees currently offered. I was told, and I haven’t researched the issue and can’t swear to a moral certainty, that NNA presented a suggested price guide to title and escrow companies along with the requirement to be a “NNA Certified Signing Agent” and the exclusive acceptance of their background check. Again, I was told, and haven’t researched the issue, that some signing services received telephone interviews from the FBI regarding an anti-trust lawsuit against NNA for price fixing.
The NNA’s very powerful advertising budget bought name recognition comparable to Kleenex, Coke, Xerox, et al. Last year a large title company requested a copy of my NNA Signing Agent certificate and NNA issued background check and could accept no other source. You might have guessed that I told them that I was sure going to miss them. Surprisingly, they had not anticipated the degree of resistance from the signing agents and had to yield or lose their workforce. We can accomplish in the collective what we cannot accomplish individually. Just for the record, anything that I can buy from Notary Rotary, I do.
For those who are not aware, California requires live scan fingerprint and FBI/Department of Justice background screening prior to receiving our commission. Obviously, we object to the duplication and additional fees.
After the signing agent crisis, I thought that maybe I should comply… just not with the NNA. A signing agent course is not offered by Notary Rotary so I inquired and this is the response:
“…We do not currently offer any kind of certification course other than our background check which includes a brief tutorial on information security and stewardship. We do not offer signing agent certifications or anything of than nature because there are no current official requirements as to what it means to be "certified". As it currently stands anyone can print a certificate and call you a certified signing agent regardless of what they asked of you for the certification. This is not to say all such programs are bad, I imagine some include a lot of useful information, but the certificate at the end should not be the goal.
Grif Shoemaker
Notary Rotary, Inc.
[e-mail address]
http://www.notaryrotary.com...”
This information was verified with California Secretary of State (SOS) and Darrell Steinberg, President pro Tempore of the California State Senate. According to Steinberg and the SOS, we are commissioned notaries public and are bound by the limits and restrictions set forth in the California notary Public Handbook, and are not authorized to act beyond the rules and regulations set forth. In other words, NNA can sell it, but it’s snake oil, so to speak. Buyer beware. (UPL)
The NNA is a revenue generating association, and does not represent notaries public.
My attorney sister tells me to always add, “….in my opinion”, so consider it said---again.
| Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 9/8/10 10:17am
Msg #351868
Please post an e-mail address.
I do agree that a concerted response from notaries public across the country should be most effective in confirming the view that the NNA is not a positive influence for the profession, and no governmental entity should be involved in advancing NNA interests.
| Reply by Stoli on 9/8/10 10:24am
Msg #351869
Two websites, Hugh.
Los Angeles Registrar-Recorder/County Clerk's website is where Marian found the information.
http://www.lavote.net/Clerk/Notary_Public.cfm
Marian spoke with the following:
Patty (562) 462-2828
The e-mail address that Marian posted is as follows:
[e-mail address]
I hope everyone follows you.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 9/8/10 10:37am
Msg #351870
Amen that, Stoli...
But I think CA notaries opinions would have a lot more weight.
| Reply by Stoli on 9/8/10 10:44am
Msg #351872
As goes California, so goes the nation, Lee/Hugh
http://www.sos.ca.gov/webcontact/general/question.aspx
Click on Agency Contact;
then
Notary Public
Then Notary Public and Authentication
The form is there.
| Reply by Lee/AR on 9/8/10 12:07pm
Msg #351877
Thanks. I did it even tho' I have no dog in this fight
today. Who knows about next week, month, year.
| Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/8/10 12:26pm
Msg #351878
Good point n/m
| Reply by Stoli on 9/8/10 12:46pm
Msg #351881
Actually, Lee, we all have a dog in this fight. n/m
| Reply by Glenn Strickler on 9/8/10 1:08pm
Msg #351882
Done, letters sent .... n/m
| Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/8/10 10:04pm
Msg #351941
Re: As goes California, so goes the nation
Well, there's an interesting show of hubris...
I can guarantee you that NY will not follow whatever CA does with this - it's not even on the radar. I doubt that most other states will jump on board either. I know that folks in CA think they're the center of the universe, but trust me - the rest of us are really not waiting for you guys to tell us what to do...  The strict notary rules that CA has have not been adopted by any other state - so what does that tell you?
The more accurate statement would be "As goes Los Angeles, so goes California." That's your problem, not mine
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/8/10 11:25pm
Msg #351947
Re: As goes California, so goes the nation
"The strict notary rules that CA has have not been adopted by any other state - so what does that tell you?"
Well, most of the super strict rules are only 2-5 years old at this point... and even a bunch of California's notaries don't seem to be able to grasp on to the changes yet.
I think it's beginning to trickle out, though...in the last year or so, various states have been tightening up their rules.
| Reply by Moneyman/TX on 9/8/10 12:33pm
Msg #351879
Good idea
If the NNA wants to advertise they should pay for it just as any other business. No branch of government should be promoting one private business over another.
Just a thought, but it might be a good idea to send the same message to officials in each of our own states referencing this issue in CA.
| Reply by jfs/IL on 9/8/10 1:42pm
Msg #351883
As it currently stands anyone can print a certificate and call you a certified signing agent regardless of what they asked of you for the certification. This is not to say all such programs are bad, I imagine some include a lot of useful information, but the certificate at the end should not be the goal.
Anyone with something called brains and common sense can pass a test.
Individuals that have claimed to have taken and passed the certification test with the NNA have asked some questions in this forum that make me wonder sometimes if they are qualified or what they studied in the first place. "the certificate at the end should not be the goal".
| Reply by Stoli on 9/8/10 2:33pm
Msg #351892
JFS/IL The quoted text is from Giff, Notary Rotary, not me. n/m
| Reply by JulieD/KS on 9/8/10 3:25pm
Msg #351899
If Kansas ever implemented a program where I had to go through the NNA to become (or renew) a notary commission, I'd stop being a notary. How offensive to have the state of California require that you go through the NNA. This just sickens me.
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/8/10 4:07pm
Msg #351901
Re: Please weigh in on NNA....Julie
"How offensive to have the state of California require that you go through the NNA. This just sickens me."
It's not a state requirement - it's one county recorder's office saying to become a notary you must go through the NNA or the CA SOS office.
But I'm with you...if my state says I MUST go through NNA to be commissioned that will be the end for me.
| Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/8/10 4:18pm
Msg #351904
Just to keep the facts straight...
If you read the actual text from the link that Marian provided, the NNA information is a referral, alongside the SOS phone number, for people wanting to become a notary public in LA County. No where does it say that there is a requirement to go through the NNA. What many of us take issue with about this was the favoritism shown them over many other organizations offering the same service.
The dispute with "requirements" to go through the NNA is a separate issue. I believe that refers to some tc's making it a prerequisite for any notaries they hire to specifically have the NNA "certification" AND their background check (which, at least in the past, was only available to those who also purchased two memberships - general and NSA).
| Reply by 101livescan on 9/8/10 2:10pm
Msg #351889
Not sure how many tangible benefits are to be had here, except some title and settlement companies only subscribe to the NNA for background checked notaries.
NNA definitely a for-profit organization albeit not as profitable as a few years ago.
The owners of the company are second home neighbors here in Santa Barbara, so things aren't so bad out there.
| Reply by Stoli on 9/8/10 2:36pm
Msg #351893
101livescan of CA - this thread is response to Marian below
The Los Angeles County Registrar/Recorder lists NNA as a reference on their website.
Marian discovered it yesterday and made a few contacts. See her post below.
| Reply by jfs/IL on 9/8/10 4:59pm
Msg #351910
How can an organization that charges two different prices for the same product not be a profitable entity. Especially since they have been around since 1957. Who is going to work for free in any organization that long!!!
| Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 9/8/10 3:03pm
Msg #351896
A cautionary note
The NNA has not been shy about throwing its weight around when it is criticized. In fact, my guess is that the organization is probably monitoring this thread.
Be cautious in what you say in any communications with third parties. Certainly, it is legitimate to voice a concern about a governmental office tacitly endorsing or supporting the mission of a private entity. However, if you propose to go beyond that and include any negative comments about the NNA itself, tred warily.
Generally, one has the right to believe anything he or she wishes, and to state that belief. So it should be okay to say that you "believe" this about the NNA. However, to state something negative as a fact is a different matter. If you do that, be prepared for some pushback from the company.
| Reply by RonA/CA on 9/8/10 6:19pm
Msg #351917
I, as a CA notary public, have sent an e-mail to the LA County recorder regarding their reference to the NNA and I hope other CA notaries do the same.
| Reply by JimAZ on 9/8/10 7:16pm
Msg #351920
This is very confusing chatter for a new notary with one year experience in loan signings. Should I include NNA for my certification and background screening in my advertising. Or should I disassociate myself from NNA. As always, I appreciate help from my elders.
| Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/8/10 7:38pm
Msg #351923
Jim, the decision use the NNA for anything is entirely your own. There are a lot of people here who are members. There are also many who are not. One of the posters here was even given one of the prestigious awards from them a couple years back.
The thing to remember is that the NNA is *not* the authority on Notaries in the country. They certainly try hard, though. They routinely give notaries bad information, and many people here have found tons of errors in their Notary law primers.
Me? I'm neutral on them... I don't care for much of what they do. I don't need their training or other services... but I do still have a membership, primarily because somebody bought it for me... and even though I did NOT pay to renew it last year, it's still active. In fact, I got a $52 check from them recently as part of a class action lawsuit related to how they handled background checks.
I *do* recognize that last year, the NNA was instrumental in getting the governor to veto a bill in California last year that would have required CA notaries to accept Matricula Consular cards from Mexico as proper ID. This would be bad news indeed. Those cards are very easy to get... *VERY* easy. I know of a man who got one by creating a fake birth certificate. He walking in the Consulate and had a card within 30 minutes. He told them he was born in a Mormon colony is Juarez. He happens to have a last name that matches some of the known families in that area (non-Hispanic), and they didn't even blink. They just accepted his birth certificate and issued a card.
He did it to prove how easy it was... and he keeps it on him to show people. The guy doesn't speak a single word of Spanish!
So, anyway... the Governor vetoed that bill, and the NNA helped a LOT with that. For that, they deserve some credit.
However... they have plenty of issues... many of which you can read about hear in the archives. Look for "NNA" and "XYZ" as some people call them.
| Reply by JimAZ on 9/8/10 8:07pm
Msg #351926
WOW, Thanks for all the info. I think I will keep my NNA membership here in PODUNK Southern Arizona. I do maybe 4-6 signings a week to supliment my social security. I'm not looking to work like some of you,,,, 10 to 12 hours a day. By the same token, I'm not as young as you young guns. LOL
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