Posted by JimAZ on 9/8/10 7:45pm
Msg #351924

missing signatures vs loan dox errors

I think it just happened to me as a fairly new signing agent. Got a notice this morning that I missed sigs on the settlement statement. Printed new settlement statement and called myself a bonehead. I check signed dox twice before shipping. When the borrower and I (50 mile round trip) started reviewing the original settlement statement and the new one there were significant revisions in settlement costs (higher). Borrower refused to sign and it was too late to call loan officer.

I think this is a loan dox error trying to be covered up as a signing agent problem. I have notified the SC of my concerns and asked for proof of my omission.

As always, I hope my elders can give me advice.

Reply by GA/Atty on 9/8/10 8:37pm
Msg #351928

If the HUD-1 was revised, they should have just sent it to

the borrower directly for him to sign it and return it to them.

In fact, even if you had missed a signature on the HUD-1, there is no reason to have a notary meet with a borrower to sign a document that does not require notarization.

Reply by JimAZ on 9/8/10 8:54pm
Msg #351929

Re: If the HUD-1 was revised, they should have just sent it to

Thanks for the info

Reply by MW/VA on 9/8/10 9:39pm
Msg #351936

I agree with GA/Atty. A revision to the HUD doesn't involve

the notary. It sounds like they were trying to pull a fast one by covering the revision to the HUD as a missed signature issue. Under new regs if the new figures fall out of the tolerance % to the GFE, they will need to redisclose & probably redraw. At any rate, I wouldn't take the fall for this one.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/8/10 9:25pm
Msg #351933

If the alleged "missing signature" doc doesn't match the original, they are trying to put one over on you and the borrower. There's no other explanation - how could you possibly miss a signature on a document you never received?

I would politely point out to whoever hired you that this is a different HUD-1 than what you originally received and presented to the borrower - and send them a copy of both what was in the original packet and what they wanted you to get signed "again." I would have compared the two before I even left the house, but that's just me...

You said you're new at this, so there's a lesson here for you - if you're called out on an error, ALWAYS verify. Keep a copy of the docs they sent you until you get paid. They say you missed a sig or a notarization? Fine - send me a copy of the error so I can confirm, and match it against what you originally received. If they can't or won't send you a copy, chances are there was no error and they're just trying to hang their screw-up on you.... I would never go out to fix something on my dime unless I could see proof that I actually made a mistake.

Reply by JimAZ on 9/8/10 10:28pm
Msg #351943

Thank you elders,,,your input is great info for a newbie. Lesson learned,,,,keep a copy of settlement statement sig; DOT sig; and Prom note sig until paid. I appreciate your input. I am still learning, but have notified SC (still un-named until we resolve) that this is a loan document error and not a signing agent omission.

I didn't know if I had made a mistake until I arrived at the borrowers and reviewed the borrower original documents and the revised documents.....much different!!!!!!! Unfortunately we have to take the brunt of the borrowers anger.

I'm a big boy and can take anything, so it didn't bother me.....I just left with apologies. The borrower called later and apoligized.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/8/10 10:35pm
Msg #351944

Jim - keep ALL docs till paid - "they" will try to pull fast one on almost any doc in package. Have proof without going to borrowers home. These trips really eat your profits, which are yours.

If you don't watch out for #1, who will?

Reply by JimAZ on 9/8/10 10:55pm
Msg #351945

Let me ask a stupid question... from a Newbie.... Why not only do business with companies on SC with a three star or better. If the company can't achieve three star they eventualy disappear and should be out of business.

Reply by MW/VA on 9/9/10 9:19am
Msg #351968

I would suggest you don't rely solely on the "star" system,

Jim. When you're logged in, you can view the comments posted for each ss. BTW 3 stars is not good. I'd try to stay with 4 stars or more, especially these days. Companies will pick out newbies to prey on. When I started out I took work from almost anyone, afraid to say "no" to any call. As a built my business & got more business I was then able to start picking & choosing who I take work from. Good luck.

Reply by jba/fl on 9/9/10 9:37am
Msg #351972

I echo that statement.

It is much better to view the recent comments - last few months only. It takes a long time for a 3 or 4 star to drop to 2 or 3, but the comments are a good guideline.

Also, the orange search button will bring up conversations with greater explanations of what is happening. If there is a "Link" it will bring up many conversations right away for one to read. These can be very illuminating.

Reply by JimAZ on 9/8/10 11:17pm
Msg #351946

Thanks for the info.....So as a Newbie,,,,I am dealing with a bunch of flake singing companies. Can you let me know the one's that are legit?

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/8/10 11:46pm
Msg #351948

Hate to be the one to tell you, but they ALL (ok, almost all--you know who you are...LOL) will try this. Keep the docs until you're paid. Always ask for 'proof of error' and don't be afraid to call them on it. Can't tell you how many times I've 'made an error' and never receive 'proof of same' and never hear about it again--or will be asked & paid to go out again and get the 'forgotten doc' signed.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 9/8/10 11:57pm
Msg #351949

I've read several responses here that say 'keep the docs until you get paid'. In case a newbie to the profession mistakes that sentence to mean 'keep the signed package until paid', that's NOT what it means. It's assuming that you received the documents via email. Keep that file on your computer until you get paid, then delete it. It comes in handy, also, if you have a deadbeat company that hesitates when it comes time to pay you...because the lender's name, addy & phone number as well as the title company's name, addy and phone number are in those docs, giving you a place to call to find out if the SS has been paid.

As far as "keeping the docs until you are paid"....send the signed originals back to the title company. Keep the emailed copy on your computer.

Reply by Shauna/WA on 9/9/10 12:40am
Msg #351952

VERY good advice

I save all my signings until paid. I put each into their own 'folder' so I can find by last name, first name and date. Obviously you can not do the same with docs that go to the borrower, but since almost everything is e-docs, it should work.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 9/9/10 6:28am
Msg #351955

Julie, I'm glad you said that, because that's what I was thinking too! We don't keep copies of signed docs, only the edoc file that was sent to us. If I download docs from a secure website, then I save the file on my computer and delete once I receive payment. If I'm sent an email with a pdf attachment, I save the email with the docs attached until I get paid.

Also in this case, since they said that he *forgot* to have the HUD signed, it would not have mattered if they had sent him a copy of his error - they would have just printed a copy of the old HUD and sent it to him blank with no signatures. If you have a copy of the docs, then you can just say, "OK, I will print another copy of the HUD from the file I received and will have the borrower sign it." But if they insist on sending you a new copy, well then it could be different...

But if they say you forgot to stamp, or you missed a notarization, or you missed a date, or you forgot to sign your notary certificate, or anything else, then yes we need to ask them to scan or fax us a copy of the error as proof.

Reply by Ali/IL on 9/9/10 8:38am
Msg #351962

Reminds me of something that happened when I was new.
I got called about a missing signature. I didn't check on anything and went over to have the borrowers sign the form. Then I got two more calls telling me to go back and get other forms signed. That is when I started questioning what was going on.
I never heard back about what had happened.
But, you learn along the way.

Reply by SharonMN on 9/9/10 9:20am
Msg #351969

I once had a company tell me I forget to notarize a doc. Had them send it to me and lo and behold, there was my certificate, right on the page with the signature. It was a split signing and I had written in my certificate and left the preprinted one for the next person. Apparently the QC person just saw the blank preprinted certificate and called me without looking at the rest of the page!

Reply by jba/fl on 9/9/10 9:28am
Msg #351971

"Thanks for the info.....So as a Newbie,,,,I am dealing with a bunch of flake singing companies. Can you let me know the one's that are legit?"

Almost all are legit - that is not the issue here. People make mistakes, that is just a normal happenstance on occassion. What is the real problem is that if another makes a mistake, that one may wish to cover it over and pass the making of it on to another, in this case the notary. If the notary keeps a copy of what was sent to them, then the notary has recourse in the form of proof of what the notary has as sometimes the other party will try to say you missed something when in fact it was not in the original package sent to the notary.

When the notary asks for proof of the notary's mistake, many times it is discovered it is not the notary's mistake after all and the other party will have to acknowledge this.

I'm not going into all the possibilities as others have covered them in their notations. Just cover yourself, ask for proof of whatever the error may be and when the check arrives, delete the file.

Again, it is not that the company is not legit, it is the age old question of "Who did this?" and the answer is many times, "Not me" - like kids not wanting to accept responsibility.