Posted by CapCityAgent on 4/5/11 2:48pm
Msg #378760

I need you all recommendation! I am livid!!!!!

I just got off the phone with a certain title company that is listed with 3 stars on NotarRotary! I am livid with the escrow officer for trying to entice me to have the borrowers sign and back date the DOT, as well as have a third signer (whose name is not on the signature page of the docs) back date and sign the DOT and the RTC which does not reflect the third parties name along with the TIL form. This loan was screwed up from the beginning. You know, the tell-tell signs where they have to reschedule because the borrower was never notified, the loan officer never returning the borrower's calls, the escrow officer giving me verbal instructions on how they wanted certain docs signed even though the verbal instructions did not match the names on the docs.

The escrow officer was giving me verbal instructions on how to have the borrower's sign the Deed of Trust. One of the parties on the DOT was deceased. The escrow officer and the loan officer could not determine if there needed to be two people at the signing or three people. Only two peoples name were reflected on all the docs. I nicely informed the escrow officer that if he wanted to me to have those docs resign that the current date would have to be reflected on the docs. I ask would I be getting paid for my work on the orginal closing appointment which I had the two borrowers whose name was reflected on the docs sign. The escrow officer made a reference to loan not going to be funded if the docs are not signed like he verbal instructed me. I mention to him that I am a professional and that I do not work like this. Please remove my name! He said ok! I am thinking about reporting both the escrow officer for scrupilous behavior and the loan officer for unprofessionalism. I still have the e-mail with the attachments. I also have the borrowers as witnesses with regards to the instructions we recieved from the loan officer which contradicted the escrow officer. We called the loan officer to verify who should sign the signature page and the loan officer stated I was correct to have the borrowers whose name appeared on the signature page to sign the DOT, not the person on the first page of the DOT. Although the third person's name was on the first page of the DOT, that person's name did not appear on the signature page of the DOT as did the other two borrowers.

This is the first time I have had a negative interaction with a Title Company. I hold them to a higher standard than a SC. I guess from the 60 Minute episod this past Sunday, I should not be surprised!!!!! Well, this is one Notary that is not going to fall for the okee doke!

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/5/11 3:15pm
Msg #378767

I'm not sure I'm following everything you said. A couple of questions:

- If one of the persons listed on the DOT is deceased, how can they expect him/her to be there to sign? Did they ask you to pick up a certified copy of the death certificate from the signers?

- Is the loan officer authorized to instruct about how the docs are signed? I would think the escrow officer's instructions trump those from the LO, but the escrow officer needs to put the instructions in writing.

Also, I'm not following as to what is the involvement of the third person if he/she was not on the docs in the first place?

Reply by MW/VA on 4/5/11 3:16pm
Msg #378768

That's a tough situation & I would have done the same as

you. I only encountered one or two lo's that tried to pressure or coerce me to do something.
I do not take instructions from lo's when it comes to the signing. That's why we are "impartial third parties". Kudos for you for taking a stand.

Reply by TacomaBoy on 4/5/11 3:30pm
Msg #378776

April Fools?

Holy Crap! The people you are dealing with must be arrogant in their thinking to expect anyone to comply with such "criminal instructions"! Really! "One of the parties on the DOT was deceased."

Reply by MW/VA on 4/5/11 3:34pm
Msg #378777

The issue of a deceased party isn't that unusual. That's

what vesting as "joint tenants with right of survivorship" is all about. I've done a few and the
tc required a copy of the death certificate.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/5/11 3:53pm
Msg #378789

Well I sort of agree that it’s real hard to get some dead guy to sign the documents (except voter registration in IL…apparently that’s the norm there)
It’s a BIG mistake to think a “Title Company” has any corner on honesty or integrity, or actual knowledge. One that has NEVER seen these qualities is Genuine Title in MD an entire pack of dishonest unscrupulous thieves in my opinion, but I’m a bit predigested where they are concerned because they still OWE me payment for a signing I did for them years ago.
The dishonest escrow officer you spoke with, just wants to get the deal done…he doesn’t care about the principals, and cares even less about you the notary (that could be in real deep trouble taking the advice from Title) Remember you can’t argue with a liar, they have no regard for the truth and therefore their position changes as it suites them. I say “Please send me an email with written exact written instructions regarding what you need in regard to this closing” then see what they send. If you agree do it, or not is your call, but if it were me I’d keep copies and let everyone know. JMO

Reply by CapCityAgent on 4/5/11 5:28pm
Msg #378805

Thanks for the responses. I know it was confusing trying to understand the dynamics. That is exactly how I felt. I finally piece together the different roles. 1. Father and son#1 purchased property. 2. Father dies 3. It seems as son# 2 took slot of decease relative. 4. Son# 1 wants to remove brother who is (son#2) from the DOT and add wife. This is all I know! I was first informed that there should be three signers at the closing. I informed borrrower (son#1) during our initial phone call of 3 people are expected at signing. son#1 informs me that father who was originally on the DOT and something about contacting the brother(son# 2). After LO re-scheduled the signing, I was informed by the escrow officer that there will only be two signers at the rescheduled closing. I arrive at closing, three signers are there: son# 1, son# 1's wife (who was being added to DOT, and son #2 who has the same name as the deceased father and was being moved off the DOT. THIS WAS A MESS! Things changed every time I talked with someone or received an e-mail. Lessons learned: If you there is inconsistence in the closing instructions and verbal instruction, don't do it.

Reply by TacomaBoy on 4/5/11 6:02pm
Msg #378810

I need you all recommendation! I am livid!!!!!

I agree 100% with your below statement MW/VA. Been there done that. However, I always ask TC/Title if they have a copy of the death certificate as their validation of the transaction. If not, I slow down a lot with questions, etc.. Howeve, in this situation the dead guy issue just adds fuel to a real mess that the notary would be wise to run away from. It just does not past the smell test from my perspective.

MW/VA: "The issue of a deceased party isn't that unusual. That's what vesting as "joint tenants with right of survivorship" is all about. I've done a few and the tc required a copy of the death certificate."

Reply by Howard Blum on 4/5/11 6:03pm
Msg #378811

Wow! I have heard of slippery stuff before, but this one is exceptional.

We have a policy at my company that requires written instructions from escrow officers before we will even accept a signing assignment. That policy was put in place the first time someone asked us to backdate a notarization.

If someone asks us to break the law, risk fines and jail time, they are going to have to do it in writing to us. Of course we will not accept the assignment with the backdating of anything and want to have those instructions just in case they ever accuse us of any wrongdoing.

I don't care how slow the business might get, going to jail is not an option for me or anyone that works with my company.

Reply by TacomaBoy on 4/5/11 7:54pm
Msg #378824

I totally agree with you Howard! Every once and while somebody will ask me to do something stupid. So, I tell them that my E&O will probably cover any fines from meeting their needs, but they will have to serve the jail time for me. I'M JUST WAY TOOOOO TENDER TO BUNK-UP WITH BUBBA! ;-)