Posted by Reconda Armijo on 4/13/11 8:24pm
Msg #379692

Incomplete Documents

I was wondering if someone could assist me in additional documentation regarding "blanks" in documents. We are having a recurring situation in my office where they do not want to put a "date" on the front page of the Deed of Trust/Agreements/Subordinate Deeds until the "Board" approves the agreement. However, they want the borrower/buyer/developer to sign the document and be acknowledged prior to approval by the board. I won't do it because of the blank and they are having a fit. We have provided them with the pages from the Notary Handbook and the penalties for notarizing such a document.

The wording on the front appears to not make adifference to those of who notarize but they feel otherwise. The word is"This document was made on the _____ day of ________, 20_____" This means to us notaries, that it is the day the document was created. They argue that we can't enter into an agreement until the board approves it and that the date has to be the date the board approves it. However, there is a clause at the end that states " the agreement is effective when signed by all parties. If signed on multiple dates, then the effective date is the day of the last signature"

Any suggestions appreciated.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/13/11 8:45pm
Msg #379694

" If signed on multiple dates, then the effective date is the day of the last signature"

Yep - that's the way that was treated where I worked in CT.

Reply by NS35/CA on 4/13/11 11:39pm
Msg #379703

Looks like you have already answered yourself. What's the problem!

Years ago, borrowers used to say that, "I'm not going to sgin (the closing package) until I 'read through every page'." They said Judge Judy always said that on her show, "Read before you sign." But we are in the escrow business, we do the opposite. Borrowers, of course, read and sign and they still have 3 business days to "read through every page" and cancel (for primary residence refi). In general, for my humble experience, majority of borrowers did not take Judge Judy's words "too literally".

I do not take "Incomplete Documents" two words "too literally". It is subject to interpretation.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/14/11 2:13am
Msg #379709

Subject to interpretation? Seems to me that the section about not notarizing incomplete documents is one of the most clear cut in our entire handbook. How else do you interpret this?

"A notary public may not notarize a document that is incomplete. If presented with a document
for notarization, which the notary public **knows from his or her experience to be incomplete** or
is without doubt on its face incomplete, the notary public **must refuse** to notarize the document." [emphasis added]

The situation the OP described is one of my pet peeves, too, and I posted about a similar situation not too long ago. It seems it never occurs to the document creators that they should adopt procedures that are in compliance with the law and aren't dependent on finding a notary every time who is willing to flaunt a legal mandate. If we're not willing to do something clearly illegal just because "it's always been done that way", then they think there's something wrong with US.

BTW, I don't take legal advice from TV (even if it is Judge Judy...)

[Rant over...]

Reply by MikeC/NY on 4/14/11 5:27am
Msg #379710

You can't do this under your state law, but I'm curious about what date they would expect to see in your notarial block if you WERE allowed to do this. Do they want the date of notarization, or the date the Board approves?

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/14/11 5:37am
Msg #379712

These types of debates with clients usually are as productive as pushing rope up a hill. If I were facing the same disagreement over & over such as this, I'd write my SOS with this very specific question, and ask for their determination.

Yes, I know - it's already clearly written in your laws, but as you can see, that doesn't seem to impress some people. Having a written & specific determination in your hand, you can step OUT of the debate, politely provide the letter and say "I'm so sorry, as you can see my hands are tied to accommodate you. Perhaps you might have better luck, and if you can get the SOS to give me a written go-ahead, I'd love to help you with this dilemma."

Reply by HisHughness on 4/14/11 9:51am
Msg #379728

FWIW for Texas notaries

There is <NO> statutory requirement in Texas that prohibits a notary public from notarizing a document with blanks. Says the SOS: "You are not responsible for the body of the document at all."

Stamp away. Do so gleefully, with verve and abandon, free from any concern that you may just have decimated the life savings of the borrower; stamp in the full knowledge that your butt is not on the line.