Posted by JimAZ on 4/8/11 10:07pm
Msg #379253

Money due at signing!!!!

This was a first for me. Borrower had $2500 due at signing for a re-fi. When I arrived she gave me an envelop that I thought contained a cashiers check for the $2500. When we finished the signing the borrower told me the LO said cash or cashiers check. The envelop contained $2500 in cash because the borrower wanted to save the $10 bank charge for a cashiers check. Borrower was insistent so I gave her a receipt . My next stop was my bank to get a cashiers check to the Title company, at no charge, to include in the return package. I was a total stranger to the borrower, but she was willing to give me $2500 cash. No wonder these scam artists are thriving.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 4/8/11 10:12pm
Msg #379255

Wow. Unbelievable to be so cheap that she would risk losing $2500 just to save $10. She's very fortunate you are an honest guy.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 4/8/11 10:14pm
Msg #379257

I don't think I would have taken it. I don't want to even have $2500 of someone else's money for even 5 minutes driving to the bank. Too bad what the instructions said, I would not have taken it.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 4/8/11 10:18pm
Msg #379259

I would not have taken it either..Too risky for me! I would have called the hiring party and follow their instructions.

I did have a bo bring cash once..but we were at the bank and the manager took care of it!

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 4/9/11 8:31am
Msg #379281

I'm with Linda on this...wouldn't have touched this at all.. n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 4/9/11 10:47am
Msg #379301

Never...do that, she could have said she gave you $3,500 n/m

Reply by SouthernOK on 4/8/11 10:16pm
Msg #379258

What if some of the money had been counterfeit? You'd have been in a real pickle.

What if you had been robbed?

This is just creepy.

Reply by JimAZ on 4/8/11 10:27pm
Msg #379260

I checked each bill for counterfeit plus when you spend an hour and a half with somebody you can tell if they are a staight arrow.

If you know the Arizona gun laws you woudn't ask about being robbed. I carry a 357 Magnum with a 38 hidden and 12 guage shotgun in my vehicle.

Any questions?

Reply by Alz on 4/8/11 10:45pm
Msg #379261

Pack first and ask questions last. ;) n/m

Reply by JimAZ on 4/8/11 11:06pm
Msg #379264

Re: Pack first and ask questions last. ;)

Don't know what you mean, but you appear to be in the comfort of Cali. We have to "pack" because we live on the mexican border. Kidnappings and killings are not limited to south of the border. They are happening in southern Arizona as far north as Phoenix.

Reply by Alz on 4/8/11 11:20pm
Msg #379268

Actually, I have a second home near Juarez, Mexico and

Deming, New Mexico; therefore, I totally understand what you are saying.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 4/9/11 9:08am
Msg #379284

Let's get a few things straight here.....

Phoenix is Central AZ, not Southern AZ. The Phoenix Metro Area is not experiencing a rash of kidnappings and killings. The only people affected by that are the ones involved in drugs and illegal immigration. Even Tucson which is in Southern AZ is not an armed camp. All this stuff is happening at the border.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/8/11 11:01pm
Msg #379262

Wow!! I'm sure glad I don't live there any more! I would not feel at all happy if I found out that someone came to my home to do a service, whether it was a loan signing, repair work or even reading a meter, and I found out that they were carrying a deadly weapon!

(Or maybe it's the rattlesnakes you're concerned with out there in the boonies? )

Reply by JimAZ on 4/8/11 11:43pm
Msg #379270

Haven't had any complaints so far. My borrowers feel safe during the signing. You uninformed don't understand what is going on at the Mexican border. Kidnappings and Killings north of the border.

By the way, rattlesnakes is the least of my worries stupid Cali. I can collect as many as you want and box them an send them to you. Just give be an address. LOL

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/9/11 1:51am
Msg #379273

No thanks. Had enough! I grew up in Tucson and I'll never forget seeing a little rattler curled up at our back door when I was five or six! A brave (or foolish) neighbor actually scooped it up into a jar and it ended up as a long time resident at the Desert Museum... (Long since gone, I'm sure!)

You may be right, though, about me not keeping up on what's going on near the border. I stay away from there on my visits, but I haven't heard anything about those kinds of problems going on in the cities. [BTW, what's with the "stupid Cali" stuff?? Don't you think that's just a little uncalled for?]

Reply by SouthernOK on 4/9/11 4:48am
Msg #379276

Re: JimAZ's gun posting

In OK and many other states CC is the only lawful option. Concealed means concealed. It's like the first rule of fight club.

And I would feel awkward entering a person's home armed, what if you open carry or the weapon prints and the signers are not "gun people." Could they later state they felt forced to sign?

Let me follow this by stating, I am a gun person.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 4/9/11 8:32am
Msg #379282

Holy hell! n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/9/11 9:17am
Msg #379286

"counterfeit?"

A possibility for certain. Just one bill would be enough to make you ever consider that again.

Another counterpoint to another statement: You may think you can size someone up and feel comfortable. Many people did and became victims of serial killer Ted Bundy. He fooled a lot.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/9/11 6:33am
Msg #379278

A couple of months ago I had a purchase closing and the borrower was supposed to wire the money that day. I told her that she need to do it THAT DAY. So the NEXT day, she goes to the bank and finds out that it will cost her $15 for a wire transfer, so instead of wiring the money she decided to save a couple of bucks and gets a cashier's check and sends it via USPS to the TC. So the TC is asking her daily where is the money? It didn't arrive and didn't arrive and after the second day TC finally told her, "Look, either you wire the money TODAY or you are losing this house. Lender is already saying that they want their funds back." She had to scrounge up the money from somewhere because she had already used her funds for the cashier's check that was stuck in USPS neverneverland. But she wanted the house so she got the money wired to TC. Ended up costing her much more than if she had just followed instructions the first time.

Reply by jnew on 4/10/11 9:03pm
Msg #379394

Security of the cash is one pitfall, the other is source of funds. A cashiers or personal check is usually a better indication that the funds were not provided by a third party, who was not part of the transaction.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/9/11 7:12am
Msg #379280

Never never never take the cash from the borrower

Tell them you're not authorized to accept cash, you WON'T accept their cash, and they must either get the cashier's check or wire the funds to title the next business day - for all of the previously mentioned reasons - anything can happen.

Are you bonded in AZ? And will that bond cover that $2500 if anything happens to it? You know your E&O doesn't come into play unless it's some form of professional liability policy including coverage for cash transactions.

I don't for one minute believe the LO told her to bring cash to the table - I think she misunderstood. IMO it's too risky - borrowers either get the cashier's check or they can wire the funds but I would not take the cash.

MHO

Reply by A S Johnson on 4/9/11 9:20am
Msg #379287

Re: Never never never take the cash from the borrower

Funds due at signing. Escrw companies don't accept cash.
>Are you bonded in AZ?<
What does being bonded have to do with you accepting cash for cash for funds due at signing? Even if your bond replaced lost cash, YOU are still on the hook for it. A bond is not insurance, it simply keeps a third party from injury, in this case losing $$$, but you will are required to pay the bonding company for thier "loan".
Think of the time it would take to file the paper work, etc. The rate lock would have expired, the borrower loses thier loan. You are now responsible for all the amounts need to redo the loan.
I haven't seen "Cash NOT Acceptable for funds due at closing" in escrow instruction recently, but in the past it was included.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/9/11 9:28am
Msg #379290

Not notary bond, Sid...

Carrying a bond to cover them for the cash carried - many who deal in cash transactions are bonded to cover them if that cash is lost or stolen (possibly state-specific)....

Did not mean the notary bond though...apologies.

Reply by A S Johnson on 4/9/11 10:03am
Msg #379298

Re: Not notary bond, Sid...

Linda
Nothing state spwcific about what a bond does. A bond keeps a third party from lost due to lost while in your care. BUT the bonding company will the look to you for the value you were responsible for which they covered.
The bonded coverage is bondong company specific as to what you paid for and that may be state specificalso.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/9/11 9:36am
Msg #379292

I'm in complete agreement with Linda. NEVER ACCEPT CASH!

I think the confusion comes from industry terminology--"cash due for closing". I would not have accepted it, and offered to follow her to the bank to get her cashiers check.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/9/11 10:38am
Msg #379300

I have accepted cash on a few occaisions, but never more

than a few bucks.
Happens if you have an non - home signing (Mickey Ds , etc) and don't have check book with them.
Collect a little extra to cover cost of a money order which I can get at any convenience store.
Don't want to get into the gun issue on this forum, but I would not be happy if someone (not a law enforcement officer) came into my house for business, armed without my permission.

Reply by S Peterson on 4/9/11 2:44pm
Msg #379325

"cash due for closing" and borrowers brought cash

when I told the borrowers that I could not transport "Cash", they replied, "but we were to told Cash due at signing". What do you do? They tok it literaly I tried real hard not to giggle because it was obvious to me they were upset. I let them know it would safely be put into the FedEx or UPS envelope, but I couldn't garantee the cash and envelope would make it safely to the Title Company. That seemed to make sense to them. Sometimes you just have to find a type of logic the borrowers will understand.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/9/11 9:27pm
Msg #379349

Re: "cash due for closing" and borrowers brought cash

Depending upon the dollar amount as well, FedEx insurance will not cover it if it is lost. Some transporters will not even cover the loss of even $1 cash.

You can also remind them that in these hard times even someone that might otherwise be "honest" may be tempted if they opened up a package that contained cash. With no way to trace the cash they placed into the overnight package they would still be responsible for the missing money if it was not logged in at the title company, regardless of the reason. That may also help them to decide that a few dollars for either the wire or cashier's check expense is worth the cost.

Reply by Joan_OH on 4/9/11 3:32pm
Msg #379333

NO WAY - I HOPE IT FUNDS

I speak from experience - this has happened to me.

If you went to your bank to get the cashiers check and your bank put your name as the re-mitter, it will look like the borrower "borrowed" funds for closing. Doesn't matter if it's $2500 or $25.00. If the lender notices it, they will question it.

In my case, the HUD changed during the closing and it was either follow the buyer an hour away to get another $264 check or just take his personal check to me and hit my bank on the way home to get a cashiers check. The lender absolutely would not fund this file because it appeared he borrowed money from me and in a lender's eyes, that's a potential lien. Didn't matter that he had $42K of his own money into the deal. Had to chase the guy down the next day with $264 (of my cash) so he could get a certified check for it while the title company sent my original certified check back to me. So at this point, his $264 check to me hadn't cleared, I had a $264 check being sent back to me and had to meet the buyer with $264 cash so he could get another check. That was almost $800 out of my pocket for a few days. Had I known how the lenders viewed this, it would have NEVER happened.

I only mention this because this is another reason that many haven't thought of as to why you should never accept cash and "go that extra mile" If the borrower wants their loan, they will get it.

I've seen this mentality too many times. We have good funds laws in this state. Anything on a purchase over $1k has to be certified. I had a LENGTHY conversation with a buyer that I COULD NOT accept a money order or personal check and the reasons why. I show up to closing and he hands me a $50K money order. I just looked at him and said "didn't we have this conversation 2 days ago?". His response was "they charge $5 for a Money Order and $8 for a cashiers check". Both his wife and I both rolled our eyes. So, in the end, he had to spend time going to the bank the next day and spending probably $20 to wire it. So he lost $17 trying to be cheap. Good Grief!

...and before anyone says there's no such thing as Money Orders over $1000, come to Ohio. That's was the S&L's issue here.

Joan-OH

Reply by dickb/wi on 4/9/11 4:03pm
Msg #379337

that happened to me a couple of months ago only...

it was an lawyer at his office....he got out a pouch counted out the money i needed, put the pouch away.....i asked if he couldn't get a cashiers check....he said isn;t casjh any good any more....i went right to my bank as well and got a cashiers check and sent that with the docs....i wonder how many people pay him in cash and it just gets socked away and never reported as income....

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/9/11 9:21pm
Msg #379347

May have a 'special' practice for 'special' clients :-) n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/10/11 12:42am
Msg #379357

I think you nailed it, Dickb/wi. With our stub of the CC,

CYA accomplished, and by kicking a copy/fax of the whole check, and a seperate one of the stub with TR # to borrower, in addition to copies for the file, probably overkill, but - better over than under?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/9/11 7:51pm
Msg #379345

As others have stated, I would never accept cash from a borrower at the table. I don't care what the instructions from the LO stated. Financial regulations prohibit lenders from accepting cash at closing and this includes giving it to the SA IMO.

Along with all the other reasons mentioned as well, there is no way I would accept responsibility for the cash even for a second.

Cashier's check or wire -- no other way, IMO.

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/9/11 10:48pm
Msg #379352

Accepting the borrower's cash and going to a bank to get a cashier's check on their behalf is one courtesy I will absolutely NOT extend.

If they were told to have a cashier's check ready and they didn't bother....too bad. I will NOT accommodate them on this. Just won't do it.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/10/11 4:02pm
Msg #379386

Count me in with those who say "no way"! I'm all for going the extra mile, but I'd draw the line for anything like that. I've never had anyone try to present me with cash, but many times it's a matter of "why won't they take my personal check for $5,000" (or whatever amount). Most of the time (at least it used to be...), they had their 3-day rescission period to get it taken care of. This is absolutely the borrower's responsibility and I'm not going to get in the middle of it beyond returning their cashier's check with a package or providing them with shipping info to the tc.

I've said this before, but it's gotten to the point where when I confirm the appointment, I ask them if they've spoken with their broker/LO about whether they're getting money back or if they need to provide any additional funds. I will not get into a discussion with them about the details, but encourage them to talk to their lender contact. I don't want surprises at the table - and several times this has helped prevent some headaches.

I have, however, had some borrowers say that their LO told them that a personal check to the tc would be OK for an amount that I would have assumed would be too high. In a few instances (not all) where they were staying with the same lender as they had before and they also did their personal banking there, this was accepted, to my surprise. Just another reason for them to work it out in advance. Even if this hasn't happened, imo, it's the LO/broker's responsibility to communicate this info - even if they don't gave an exact amount. I'm just going to offer them options if it isn't worked out when I get there: a wire transfer, over-nighting a check, or if the tc is close, they could drop it off.

Bottom line, you can help without getting caught in the middle. It's just another area where we should identify boundaries, imo.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 4/11/11 5:48am
Msg #379405

Accepting cash is wrong in SO MANY ways.

Settlement agent is NOT going to 'appreciate' your kind intentions, either. If you take the cash and your own risks - and purchase a CC or MO with it, it could kill the deal because the funds will show as coming from YOU. Doesn't exactly wash out well in the ledger.

It's always nice to be nice, but there's just no way to make this (accepting cash) fly. It would be nice if they changed the wording on the Hud to say "FUNDS DUE" instead of "CASH DUE", but meantime ....those that show up with dollar bills will just have to go home with wiring instructions.