Posted by Belinda/CA on 4/23/11 1:44am
Msg #381070

Signing Outline

I am doing my best to keep things straight. The more I read the more I look for some type of outline to follow at a signing. Piecing things together. My loan signing class instructor offered to let anyone in the class do a ride along with her but then she always had excuses and never would schedule. She is not from this area so it would be a drive to her location; we were not competition to her. She was blowing smoke in several of her statements it turns out. Too bad too. I had a crispy $100 bill in an envelope ready for her and some See's candy to top it off.

I recently refinanced and paid no attention to the notary really. I didn't know I was going to be one at the time! When do I notarize and fill in the journal. Later when I get home? Or is it done in front of the clients? (I know this is not a requirement.)

I know I could get to the appointment and wing it and do my best with the outline I have been putting together. But, if you have any advice you are willing to share I would deeply appreciate it.
Any 'things' you say at the signing or methods or how you proceed and what goes in what order.
I have a pretty firm grip on the documents. Thank you

Reply by Belinda/CA on 4/23/11 1:44am
Msg #381071

Now if I could just stop typing singing instead of signing.

Reply by ko/FL on 4/23/11 6:33am
Msg #381072

sent you a pm

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/23/11 7:46am
Msg #381074

In my opinion, you should notarize at the table. Many of us go through the package before the appointment and pre-fill our notary certificates with all info except our signature and notary stamp. This allows you to concentrate on completing your notarizations properly and also speeds things up nicely at the appointment, where all you have to do is sign and stamp after the borrower signs the document. Also, many of us find it helpful to stack the doc package in a certain way to help the appointment go faster.

This is my stacking order:

HUD
First Payment Letter
Note
Escrow Account Disclosure
RTC
TIL
DOT + any Riders
Remaining lender docs
Title docs

This gets the most important docs seen by the borrower first thing. If there is an issue with any of those docs that could make or break the deal, you want those docs seen first.

As far as the journal goes, I have a cheat sheet that I created where I check off which docs in the package I am notarizing for a particular package (I do this while I am pre-filling my certificates). After the appointment has been completed and there is a journal entry for that signer, I transfer the names of the docs I notarized for that person (OK everyone, I know that we notarize SIGNATURES and not documents). This is the procedure that works for me, and others may do it differently. CA may have different requirements for completing the journal of which I am not aware. This also allows to me quickly count how many notarizations I have for that package and I check to make sure I have stamped that many notary seals. It may be overkill, but I have never had a doc returned to me due to forgotten stamp.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/23/11 8:19am
Msg #381079

I won't comment on signing order or stacking order

this has been discussed extensively and everyone has a different method...you'll find that info here...my order is pretty much the same as Copperhead with small variations (I don't rearrange the package - I flag the criticals - the company gets the docs back in the order they're sent to me)...

I will say, as to the journal, since you're in CA the journal is REQUIRED - you're going to need a thumprint for your closings (real estate transaction) and a signature from your signers - if it were me as the signer I'd hesitate to sign and give my thumbprint to blank entries that someone tells me they'll "fill out later"...for integrity's sake and the comfort of your signers, (Not to mention somewhere it's probably required by your SOS) the entries they're signing should be completely filled out when they sign them...

MHO

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 4/23/11 10:28am
Msg #381086

Agree. Signer doesn't sign my journal until entry is

completed.

Just use common sense folks. Having them sign a blank journal entry is like asking them to sign a blank document.

Reply by EileenMO on 4/23/11 11:53am
Msg #381088

Re: Agree. Signer doesn't sign my journal until entry is

how do you enter in your journal? I have always listed each document signed for each signatory.... and then they have to sign my journal as many times as there are notarized documents. But I have seen some notaries that make one entry per person signing and list the docs as 'loan (mortgage) documents'. Which is correct, or does it not matter?

Reply by John Tennant on 4/23/11 12:12pm
Msg #381089

Re: Agree. Signer doesn't sign my journal until entry is

In California you must use an individual line in the journal for each document signed. There should be multiple lines used for most closings. Do all California notaries do this. Nope, even though it could cost them a fine.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/11 2:18pm
Msg #381197

Jon:

I'm in California and fill out a separate line per signature; 2 signatures on document: 2 lines in journal. I'm so use to it, there is never a second thought.
I just do not cut corners.
It's not worth it.
I look at the journal as evidence, so I make sure it is very detailed.

Reply by Stephanie_CA on 4/25/11 2:20pm
Msg #381199

Re: John:

I'm in California and fill out a separate line per signature; 2 signatures on document: 2 lines in journal. I'm so use to it, there is never a second thought.
I just do not cut corners.
It's not worth it.
I look at the journal as evidence, so I make sure it is very detailed.

Sorry on the name...

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/23/11 12:36pm
Msg #381091

Re: Agree. Signer doesn't sign my journal until entry is

See post below.

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/23/11 12:35pm
Msg #381090

Re: I won't comment on signing order or stacking order

<<<.....if it were me as the signer I'd hesitate to sign and give my thumbprint to blank entries that someone tells me they'll "fill out later".>>>

The first line entry is complete......the only redundant part not filled in, Linda, is the address, ID info, and date/time/fee of notarization.

The type of notarization, type of ID, and title/type of doc is written in for each entry at the borrower's table. If you choose to sit and wait for a Notary to recopy the redundant part (possibly 5 - 10 entries per borrower).....you have that choice. PerSonsally, I wouldn't waste the borrower's time recopying redundant part.

<<<....for integrity's sake and the comfort of your signers,....>>>

I explain to the signer that "for time's sake" I will recopy their address (redundant part) later. Never had anyone raise an eyebrow about it.

<<<(Not to mention somewhere it's probably required by your SOS) the entries they're signing should be completely filled out when they sign them...>>>

No, not required by SOS and NO won't waste borrower's time (as described above). Taking 20 - 30 mins completing 10 - 20+ complete journal entries is ridiculous and IMHO, NO ONE writes fast enough to complete 10 - 20+ journal entries in 5 mins....as someone will inadvertently chime in and post that it takes them 5 mins to complete ALL of their 10+ journal entries. <baloney....bologna....BALONEY!!>

Yeah, 5 mins for 5 journal entries total .... but 10 - 20+ complete entries (name, address, date/time/fee of notarization, ID info, type of notarization, type/tile of document).....Uh huh ...SURE!!!!

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/23/11 12:39pm
Msg #381092

To Clarify....

The first line entry is complete......the only redundant part not filled in, Linda, is the address, ID info, and date/time/fee of notarization.

SHOULD READ: The first line entry is complete......the only redundant part not written for the subsequent entries per person, Linda, is the address, ID info, and date/time/fee of notarization.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 4/23/11 12:57pm
Msg #381096

Re: To Clarify....

Amen! to all you posted, LKT. Except, I don't record addresses because it's not among the items listed that the state requires. As far as t-print and signature, I haved NEVER had a signer look at the "other" side of the page and refuse to sign the journal until it was filled in. (Probably because the signer hadn't signed anything yet, I guess.) The state requires the signature of every person whose signature is being notarized and a t-print in some cases. It seems a stretch that a signer would demand to see that the other portion of the journal was correctly filled in, too; I mean, a notary could change stuff later. This is all too much to comprende. In any case, if someone asked, I'd certainly accommodate .....

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/23/11 12:43pm
Msg #381093

Lisa...I was responding to the OP's statement/question

"When do I notarize and fill in the journal. Later when I get home? Or is it done in front of the clients? (I know this is not a requirement.)"

The redundant information I understand - but I would not sign a journal that did not contain the information such as date, doc title, etc...

I read elsewhere someone stated they write the info down on a scrap piece of paper and fill it in later at their leisure...not with MY signature and thumbprint you won't....

MHO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/23/11 12:44pm
Msg #381094

Oh..and should add - IMO and in FL the notarization is done

in front of the signers...not later...right then and there...

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/23/11 2:19pm
Msg #381099

Re: Lisa...I was responding to the OP's statement/question

Okay...no prob....I was just responding to this:

<<<.....if it were me as the signer I'd hesitate to sign and give my thumbprint to ***blank entries**** that someone tells me they'll "fill out later".>>>

I was just pinpointing what I fill in and what I leave for later....sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh.

Reply by Jodith/WA on 4/29/11 5:50pm
Msg #381777

Re: I won't comment on signing order or stacking order

In Washington, we're not even required to keep a journal (scary, I know). I fill in the required information for everything required to notarize documents before I do anything else. I one signature from each signer to compare to the signature on the ID presented (because I can't notarize without that identifying feature) and get a thumbprint if the signer doesn't refuse (again, not required in Washington).

Then as I go through the paperwork, I list the documents notarized as I notarize them. I don't get signatures for every document, just the original signature so that I can compare to the proffered ID.

I know other states have much more stringent requirements, but in my very lax state, many notaries think my way is too stringent *laughs*.

Reply by Belinda/CA on 5/4/11 11:34am
Msg #382098

I have to say here folks, my past instructor has come through with flying colors. I was so upset that I was not prepared for my first signing in the 'outline' perspective. And, I was upset that I never got to do the ride-along. But, she has come through in a big way for me! I called her about the loan and she has been there for me in a huge way since the call. I guess I felt dumped. Well, I know I did. I do not believe she was ever doing anything intentionally and I am feel terrible that I made it sound that way. She is a GEM. Even though you do not know who I am talking about I wanted to point that out. Thank you teach! (I don't even think she gets on this site either, but I wanted to praise her.)