Posted by Negrete on 4/19/11 11:11am
Msg #380423

The Legal Desription ( NNA at it again )

Poll: Notaries support notary training

(4/18/2011)

A new poll indicates a large majority of notaries believe every notary should undergo training. Currently, only 12 states have any requirement for notary education.

More than 1,000 notaries responded to the national survey conducted by the National Notary Association. More than 90 percent of the survey respondents agreed that every notary should undergo some form of training, even if not required by state law.

The results of the February 2011 online poll were released as a growing number of government regulators turn their attention to the foreclosure documents crisis — with its reports of falsified, altered or improperly notarized court filings.

Of those supporting training, more than 80 percent said that newly commissioned notaries should attend some kind of educational classes; more than 60 percent supported additional courses for notaries when they renew their commissions; and 10 percent supported courses when a state changes its notarial laws.

GO figure, the NNA is the one behind this articale.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/19/11 11:17am
Msg #380425

Okay..call me confused...I don't get the connection

to "The Legal Description"...

I'm all for mandatory training for notaries - sure would help do away with some of the mess I see in the county records...

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 4/19/11 11:21am
Msg #380427

So what if the NNA was behind it?

I was one of the people that voted in that poll to have mandatory education. I think that a mandatory class with exam (85% or higher grade required) with a live instructor should be required for every notary applicant, first time and renewing.

There are people who have been notaries for 30 years and still don't know what they are doing.

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/19/11 11:30am
Msg #380430

Disagree... sort of

I think a brief class for first-time notaries would be helpful. But of equal--and even greater--help would be a decent accurate state-specific handbook with information that the vast majority of notaries run into. Like--the commission belongs to the Notary, not the employer who may have paid for it.
Whether we like it or not, NSAs are a very small minority of notaries and to mandate classes for renewals would be a waste of most notaries time. State-mandated education aimed at NSA work would be the (very short, stubby) tail wagging the dog.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/19/11 11:34am
Msg #380432

I kind of agree with you Lee...but I don't

Even in those states where handbooks are updated faithfully every year (unfortunately, not FL) a quick read of this forum and others will tell you that people don't look at the handbook - it's far easier to ask someone else than to look it up themselves.

I think mandatory training and re-training is an excellent idea. Do I support NNA being the only source? No...but I think the training should be an integral part of obtaining and retaining a commission.

MHO

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 4/19/11 11:37am
Msg #380433

Re: Disagree... sort of

>>>Whether we like it or not, NSAs are a very small minority of notaries and to mandate classes for renewals would be a waste of most notaries time. <<<

Every other professional has continuing education. Lawyers, doctors, etc. Why should notaries be an exception?

Reply by rengel/CA on 4/19/11 11:57am
Msg #380439

Re: Disagree... sort of

Since when is a Notary Public a "profession"? Doctors, lawyers and dentists, etc. have to go to college, earn a degree and pass state boards. Does a Notary? Let's not blow a "commission" out of proportion.

I agree about education being extremely important for commissioning Notaries Public. But...the State has to take it more seriously before notaries will.

My .02

Reply by Les_CO on 4/19/11 1:34pm
Msg #380470

Re: Disagree... sort of

For many years I have had to sit through incredibility boring classes offering mostly nothing, but ‘required’ for “continuing education” to stay a licensed Real Estate Broker here in CO. In my opinion they accomplish NOTHING but enrich accredited schools, and cover the politician’s ass with the general public that voted for these absurd laws. Maybe an hour class covering new laws, and regulations would be helpful. And okay with me as an option. Anything else is purely lobbyist caused crap funded by those that profit by it.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/19/11 11:40am
Msg #380434

Wow! Do I disagree.

I'm from a state where, if you can scrapte together $70 and your breath can fog a mirror, you can become a notary public. It also is a state where there are virtually no statutes or regulations regarding the process of notarization itself, beyond the absolute bare minimum required. And every day I yearn for some state-mandated training that would clean up some of the practices I see. That training would include a Continuing Education class upon renewal to cover any new statutory or regulatory requirements and any new judicial holdings affecting the position. It also would include a refresher on basic notary law.

Bring it on!

Reply by A S Johnson on 4/19/11 12:20pm
Msg #380446

Re: Wow! Do I disagree.

Hugh, I 100% agree with you.
I just faxed a page that a older Notary in the area just signed and stamped. I've talked with her and she does NOT think the new rules apply to her.
As far as NSAs, yes there should be state specific training and a certification that has to be applied to those docs the Notary notarized.
I'd go even future and suggest that lender's/title/escrow shold be required to train NSA for thier specific ways of doing thing.

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/19/11 12:24pm
Msg #380451

Re: Wow! Do I disagree.

"lender's/title/escrow shold be required to train NSA for thier specific ways of doing thing."

Now, THAT scares me.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/19/11 2:10pm
Msg #380483

Re: Wow! Do I disagree.

"lender's/title/escrow should be required to train NSA for thier specific ways of doing thing"

Sorry, but unless we're just dreaming about what if all things were possible, I don't see this as at all practical - unless you mean including a few required bits in the closing instructions. The biggest problem I see with this is that some companies will undoubtedly come up with things that will be in conflict with some states' laws. Also, I think administering it could be a very expensive bureaucratic nightmare.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/19/11 11:50am
Msg #380438

And by the way Lee...where did you get the idea

that this is for state-mandated NSA training? The OP says "notaries"...nothing about NSA's...

I took it to be notary public education - not NSA...if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me..

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/19/11 12:21pm
Msg #380447

Re: And by the way Lee...where did you get the idea

OK...fair question. Considering who has done this study and who invented a sub-category years ago and who recently invented still more sub-categories and whose bank accounts need refurbishing.... just a wild and crazy guess.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/19/11 12:22pm
Msg #380448

Heh..LOL..okay..:) n/m

Reply by desktopfull on 4/19/11 11:57am
Msg #380440

Re: Disagree... sort of

New notaries yes, they definitely need training classes. But, renewals mandated to take classes is just another way for the government to pick your pocket with more regulatory fees.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/19/11 12:24pm
Msg #380450

Re: Disagree... sort of

***renewals mandated to take classes is just another way for the government to pick your pocket***

Hmmmm...lessee...my mother's gonna have brain surgery next week. Choice of two surgeons. One passed the med exam 10 years ago, been coasting since then on what he learned to pass the exam. Other one has taken a class every year on the latest developments. Which to use? What to do, what to do?

I kinow...never hire desktopfull for a notarization, that's what.

Reply by desktopfull on 4/19/11 12:48pm
Msg #380454

Re: Disagree... sort of

"I kinow...never hire desktopfull for a notarization, that's what."

First, Hugh, your implication that I am not competent enough to perform a notarization because I disagree with the premise that it is necessary to attend continuing education classes for performing notarizations is completely uncalled for, unprofessional and rude.


Second, based on your statement, Hugh, notarizing a signature has now become the equivalent of brain surgery. That's a good one, because notarizing isn't even close to brain surgery. Nor is it equivilant to continuing education for lawyers.

Would you get real here, why do I need to pay someone $100.00 or more to have them read the current set of Florida Statutes that pertain to notaries to me? You see I do that on a yearly basis not when I renew every 4 years and if I have any questions concerning what I have read I simply contact my brother (who is a judge) and ask him for a thorough explaination. Also, if I hear that they are changing anything during the legislative sessions I keep myself informed of those changes during the year as well.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 4/19/11 12:54pm
Msg #380455

Re: Disagree... sort of

Ignorance can always justify its existence and its perpetuation.

Reply by desktopfull on 4/19/11 1:01pm
Msg #380457

Re: Disagree... sort of

You prove that daily.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 4/19/11 1:27pm
Msg #380468

I'm with DTF on this one. To spend time and money to

participate in re-education to a renew a commission to perform a function, that the State of Il values at one whole dollar, requires little more than a few bucks and a pulse to receive, and the functions or which have remained substantially unchanged for years, is at best , unconscienceable.
With the exception of a few "LTP" states, the functions of a NSA are not regualated, which suits me just fine. The hiring entitlies (title companies) are essentially responsible, for the performance of NSAs, and they should be the ones to determine if the NSA they are hiring knows what he/she is doing.
That said, I am all in favor of NSAs being knowledgeable, comptent and ethical. I just don't need some bureauocrat, designing a class and test, and requiring me to spend time and money to show that I know what I am doing.

Reply by jba/fl on 4/19/11 1:35pm
Msg #380471

I'm w/you two, too. To the bunkers, hunker down! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/19/11 11:27pm
Msg #380593

Agree, Bob.

*that the State of Il values at one whole dollar*

Seriously. Even at $10 per notarization, can that kind of training be justified?

Of course, I am a notary trainer. I make good money at it, too. Really good when there's around 50 in a class. I am grateful for the work. I absolutely love doing it.

I am also gratified when there's a million questions and the notaries leave the class thanking me for the information, but that's in a big corporate environment and they are not individually paying for it. At $6 a pop, I would hate to think that notaries are forced to pay for training.

Reply by HisHughness on 4/20/11 12:42am
Msg #380600

Re: Agree, Bob.

***At $6 a pop, I would hate to think that notaries are forced to pay for training.***

From a purely selfish business perspective, I am hard-pressed to see <any> disadvantage in reducing the number of people with notary commissions. Sounds like a win-win to me: Chase out the dilettantes that suck so much revenue away from the professionals, and ensure that those remaining know what they're doing. Best I can guess, that first advantage alone should more than offset the cost of any required training every four years.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 4/19/11 2:28pm
Msg #380491

How? Private sector people can teach notary classes. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/19/11 1:06pm
Msg #380460

Tony? Still waiting to hear the connection with

The Legal Description...would really appreciate the tie-in.

Reply by Les_CO on 4/19/11 1:21pm
Msg #380464

Re: Tony? Still waiting to hear the connection with

Tony can speak for himself!….but… I interpret his post to mean “legal description” : A “Legal” Notary Public is (according to the NNA) a Commissioned Notary Public that has taken some ‘continuing education’ or ‘certified course’ offered by the NNA at least once a year.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/19/11 1:24pm
Msg #380467

LOL...

"A “Legal” Notary Public is (according to the NNA) a Commissioned Notary Public that has taken some ‘continuing education’ or ‘certified course’ offered by the NNA at least once a year"

So if that's the thinking, then we're all illegal huh??

Reply by James Dawson on 4/19/11 1:29pm
Msg #380469

Once a year..yep! n/m

Reply by Les_CO on 4/19/11 1:52pm
Msg #380477

Re: LOL...

Are you a member?
Want to know where to sign up? The NNA has a long and distinguished record of providing the wrong answers to the right questions. And since it's mostly run by non-notary laymen trying to squeeze a buck out of anyone and everyone they can.... Why not? You will only be "legal" if you take the NNA certified course, and buy the NNA E&O insurance, and the NNA 'background check', and take a yearly (maybe monthly) certification course.
Money, money, money, money, money!
Maybe better name would be the Avaricious Society of Crooks Peddling Crap to Gullible Notaries? No…that’s too long. Any suggestions?

Reply by Negrete on 4/19/11 4:46pm
Msg #380542

Re: Tony? Still waiting to hear the connection with

The NNA and the Legal Description are supporting one another.

Reply by BrotherOwner on 4/19/11 1:55pm
Msg #380479

"The results of the February 2011 online poll were released as a growing number of government regulators turn their attention to the foreclosure documents crisis — with its reports of falsified, altered or improperly notarized court filings. "

The problems of the mortgage frauds and other "issues" are NOT with lack of Notary training. The problems are the result of greed and violations of laws already on the books. Where are the prosecutions of the "Big Boys" who've made Billions and have now walked away free and clear!!! Try explaining Robo-signing and robo Vice Presidents for Fraud to the poor people who've lost their homes,jobs,lives, and families to these greedy jerks. Where's the justice??

The only reason for the "poll" is for XYZ to be able to point to an ISSUE they created so they can continue to line their own pockets. Years ago I bought a state specific book from them which was both out of date and contained WRONG information. Shame on them. And Same on them for trying to hoodwink Secretaies of State by indicating that they are the ones that represent Notaries interests!

Reply by LeeA on 4/19/11 2:05pm
Msg #380482

I think there should be some sort of training. For all notaries signing agents. It scary what people don't know and go out and tell people. A lot of Notaries say here are the documents I here to notarize.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 4/19/11 2:31pm
Msg #380493

>>>The problems of the mortgage frauds and other "issues" are NOT with lack of Notary training. <<<

Oh yes they are. That, and the fact that most notaries don't really give a crap, don't take their commissions seriously, and do whatever their employer tells them to do.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/19/11 4:37pm
Msg #380537

I don't think it's one or the other. They are both issues that could be improved. IMHO, notaries could benefit from better education, although I don't see the need for annual classes. There's lots of different ways that problem could be worked on.

Likewise, I don't think good notary education would have prevented the robo-signing situation. All the education in the world couldn't have prevented those executives from finding someone with a notary commission to intimidate into doing what they wanted. Besides, education can't cure a fundamental lack of ethics or integrity, unfortunately.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 4/19/11 9:12pm
Msg #380574

Applause. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 4/19/11 10:38pm
Msg #380588

Well said, Janet. That also doesn't take into acct. that

the "training" or education offered by XYZ is definitely not the answer!!! IMO it's just another example of their self-promotion.

Reply by Barney on 4/19/11 9:58pm
Msg #380581

Re: The Legal Desription )MIP increase to Home buyer

The big boys have walked away free but the home buyers has to pay see MIP increase.

New FHA Annual (monthly) MIP Increases
These changes were effective April 18, 2011
(for case numbers assigned on or after this date)

1.The Upfront Mortgage Insurance remains at 1.00%.
2.The Annual Insurance Premium will increase from .90% to 1.15% for LTV's greater than 95% on 30 yr loans.

3.The Annual Insurance Premium will increase from .85% to 1.10% for LTV's less than or equal to 95% on 30 yr loans.
4.The Annual Insurance Premium will increase from .25% to .50% for LTV's greater than 90% on 15 yr loans.
5.The Annual Insurance Premium will increase from 0% to .25% for LTV's less than or equal to 90% on 15 yr loans.
To read Mortgagee Letter 11-10 in its entirety, click here.

In other words: on a $100,000 FHA 30 year fixed this equals a $21 higher monthly payment for homebuyers

Reply by jojo_MN on 4/19/11 10:05pm
Msg #380582

Yep. Do they also mention that all 1,000 notaries that took the survey are members of the NNA and most likely have taken their certification tests?? MHO