Posted by SuperNotary on 4/4/11 3:43pm
Msg #378554

"see if I can get that approved."

A message to signing companies: When you tell us you'll "see if I can get that approved." We know what that really means. You're really going to try a few more notaries to see if you can get your lowball number. If you call me and I hear you say that I will tell you not to call again. You get what you pay for.

Reply by JulieD/KS on 4/4/11 3:57pm
Msg #378559

I just tell them that the quoted fee is good for 30 minutes. If they call back a few hours from now, the fee will increase. The less notice they give me, the more they will have to pay me to get me into my pantyhose. It's my Pantyhose Rule.

Reply by 101livescan on 4/4/11 4:02pm
Msg #378564

Julie, you're very funny!

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/4/11 4:15pm
Msg #378569

Love the "Pantyhose Rule" - Do I have your permission to

change it to my "Socks Rule" since I'm a guy?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/4/11 4:15pm
Msg #378570

ROFL Julie...:) n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 4/4/11 4:26pm
Msg #378574

Love the Pantyhose Rule! n/m

Reply by Frank/NC on 4/4/11 4:39pm
Msg #378580

No, I'm not going to ask the question!

Reply by John Schenk on 4/4/11 6:10pm
Msg #378591

Maybe a "Man-T-Hose Rule" for guys. LMAO FUNNY! n/m

Reply by ajd/pa on 4/4/11 4:37pm
Msg #378578

Just got one of those for tomorrow. Offered $75, when I said my fee would be $XXX, she sort of took in a deep breath and said "wow, I can't do that, I could probably only go to $80, I guess I will have to try some others, you were my first call, yada, yada, yada". I told her to go ahead and try and let me know if she can't find someone. But I guess there was someone who took it for $75 as I have not heard back yet (not holding breath, by the way). Stocking rule applies here, too.

Reply by John Schenk on 4/4/11 6:18pm
Msg #378594

I don't draw a line in the sand by ever telling a company that traditionally offers low fees to not call me again. Even though some/many traditionally offer very low fees, they do meet my reasonable fee on occasion. Doesn't take but a few to field the call and quote a fee. They either call back and meet it, or they don't. I'm always courteous to them when they call, even knowing they're about to offer a fee that I would never do the closing for on any day. Not a great number of SAs they can call in my area, so they sometimes have to pay a reasonable fee just because the ones they normally use for the lowball fee aren't available.

Win some, lose some. Tell them to never call again and you lose ALL.

JJ

Reply by Ann ABC notary on 4/4/11 6:25pm
Msg #378596

Negative - there are plenty of superb notaries that will take the work for lesst, they realize that in this economy and with the closings in a downward sprial, it's best to take the lower fee than no fee at all. Maybe most don't need the money and do this to supplement their other income/or business, but most rely on this type of business to pay their bills and would rather take a lower fee and continue to get steady business, rather than decline work and lose the opportunity to not get another call. With lots of people out of work and basically homeless, i am flabbergasted that most still feel the necessity to charge the same fees as last year or years prior.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/4/11 6:39pm
Msg #378602

Ann, why do you find it necessary to continually

post lectures and criticisms to the posters here? I think in the past 8-9 months you've posted one on-topic, helpful, informative post. All the rest have been critical, judgmental lectures, like your classroom has gotten out of control and you need to get it back in order.

You obviously run, or work for, an SS - you've made that fact is painfully clear. If you don't like what we "working" notaries have to discuss, why not move on to a forum that will support your views and your business. No need to stick around and post your lessons to us.

MHO

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 4/4/11 6:42pm
Msg #378605

"i am flabbergasted that most still feel the necessity to charge the same fees as last year or years prior. "

Aren't you flabbergasted that they still charge the borrower the same or higher fee for your services while they lowball you? You accept less money in your pocket and allow them to put more (of your)
money in their pocket.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/4/11 6:48pm
Msg #378609

I guess your expenses have decreased over the last few years

Mine, and I think I can safely say all others as well, have not. Decreasing my profit margins to below minimum wage or even lower just to create cashflow will not keep a business in business.

I offer a professional service and expect a professional fee for that service. General notary pay is not acceptable to me for signing agent services.

One of the reasons I stick to my fees is because the economy is so bad. Companies such as Walmart have proven that other companies that try to lower their prices to below cost will go out of business.

I recently received an email from a SS that on certain loans they were offering $20 as a print fee. Of course they were also offering $65 for the signings. They are not looking for professionals, they are looking for "garage sale pricing" or "blue light special" notaries that do not understand the economics of business. These type of SS companies are not my target customers.

If someone called you for general notary services for which you quoted them $45, using your business model if they countered with $10 you should accept it (because the economy is so bad) and offer the exact same service (travel to wherever) of course. Even Walmart won't use that business model and neither would anyone else desiring to stay in business.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 4/4/11 7:00pm
Msg #378611

Even Walmart is raising prices n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/4/11 7:07pm
Msg #378613

The only ones not willing to pay professional fees for

professional services are these type of SS companies. I'm in agreement with another poster, I think Ann works directly for a SS of some sort and if so, I'll bet anything they are one of the ones that are offering these lowball offers.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/4/11 7:08pm
Msg #378614

forgot to add... Yes, they are. :-) n/m

Reply by Ann ABC notary on 4/4/11 7:29pm
Msg #378623

Re: not speaking about walmart!

Yes, everyone has inflation! Gas, food, etc, etc. NO DOUBT!

We're talking about he mortgage crisis! How many of you have seen a substantial decrease in work?
I know i have - NOTHING compared to the end of last year.

I wasn't aware that Wal Mart is now affiliated with the mortgage industry. How do they have any relevance to your conversations?

Anyone or any company in affiliation with lenders, title companies, mortgages, everyone is suffering and based on this, i am willing to lower my fees to increase my client contacts.

I have a right to an opinion, wheter most of you like it or not. As we all try in think if ways to supplement our losses, I'll continue to have the same opinions.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/4/11 7:46pm
Msg #378625

Okay..I don't understand this at all..perhaps you'd be

willing to explain to me how this even remotely makes sense:

The price of your combustibles has gone up, gas has gone up (costing more to travel to the signings) federal taxes have gone up.....so right off the top your out-of-pocket fronted expenses have gone up...but yet you say "i am willing to lower my fees to increase my client contacts."

How does that make any sense at all? You're willing to spend more on uncompensated expenses AND accept less pay for the job, thereby cutting into your profit margin, in order to to increase your client base and take a loss for more people??

Sorry..I don't get this logic at all..

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 4/4/11 7:48pm
Msg #378628

Sorry..should read "take a loss FROM more people".. n/m

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 4/4/11 7:51pm
Msg #378629

Re: Okay..I don't understand this at all..perhaps you'd be

Linda, if she is an SS, I'm sure reducing her fee is not a problem for her. How much can it cost to make a few phone calls?
If she's not an SS and an SA like the rest of us, I'm sure she will be out of business by July. JMO

Reply by Ann ABC notary on 4/4/11 9:39pm
Msg #378649

Re: Okay..I don't understand this at all..perhaps you'd be

There is no logic according to your standards and expectations.

There are many of you rejecting work because you still want to be paid the same, yet someone else is taking your work for less. This pattern will continue.

Some make a profit with charging less because they get more volume versus charging more and getting less volume. I suppose if this is not a full time job for most, then it would make sense to want to stick with your standard fee. I talk with notaries that charge less and yet still make a substantial profit.
It's all about volume.

What uncompensated expenses are you talking about? Your time?

I'm not losing anything. As I stated before, I like to express my opinions.

It's about survival and having a competitive drive.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/4/11 10:05pm
Msg #378661

Re: Okay..I don't understand this at all..perhaps you'd be

Sorry...but this "volume" discussion is just wrong. Beginning notaries deserve to understand what this kind of condescending rhetoric really means.

There is no logic according to your standards and expectations.
[I am entitled to my opinion! If you do not agree with my opinion you are wrong! You are illogical!]

There are many of you rejecting work because you still want to be paid the same,
[You won't work at a loss. YOU would rather MAKE money than "help out" SSs, help THEM MAKE money.]

yet someone else is taking your work for less. This pattern will continue. s
[Other notaries are working themselves into debt! Fortunately for SSs, this will continue.]

Some make a profit with charging less because they get more volume versus charging more and getting less volume.
[Volume in this situation means that if you take a loss on each assignment, and you are doing "volume" work, then you can lose more money quicker! Also, you will be constantly unavailable for well paying work!]

I suppose if this is not a full time job for most, then it would make sense to want to stick with your standard fee.
[If you were serious about this work, you would stop insisting on making a profit and become a charity! Serious notaries get into the fast lane to bankruptcy!]


I talk with notaries that charge less and yet still make a substantial profit.
It's all about volume.

[I know notaries who do not yet know how to determine their costs of doing business. They are new and have not filed taxes yet. They think they have made a profit. They will not be prepared for the tax bill, but who cares? Their losses equal SSs gains! They do not realize that they are losing money exponentially by doing "volume" charity work.]

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/5/11 1:36am
Msg #378683

Great stuff, Brenda!

Although I doubt you will change her mind. However, it might help some newbies from falling for that reasoning. I have one more comment to this statement, though:

"I suppose if this is not a full time job for most, then it would make sense to want to stick with your standard fee."

Ann, I think you have this exactly backwards! For those of us for whom this IS a full time job, it's even more essential for us to make sure that we make a reasonable profit for the work that we do. How else to the bills get paid? But if you're a ss, you have a vested interest in encouraging people to work for peanuts. For you, volume does make a difference because it's other people who have a big chunk of time invested into each signing. The fewer people you have working for you at any given time, the less money you make. But for those of us who actually do the work, there are only so many hours in a day and we can only do one signing at a time.

I like this statement from Brenda: "if you take a loss on each assignment, and you are doing "volume" work, then you can lose more money quicker!" It can be tough, but it's important for a business to think beyond the short-term cash flow sometimes. Your survival may depend on it...

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/5/11 6:42pm
Msg #378814

Awesome Benda! n/m

Reply by HisHughness on 4/5/11 7:27pm
Msg #378819

Re: Awesome Benda!

Damn! Is Brenda on a benda again? For heaven's sake, somebody get her a pot of hot coffee and a cold shower.

In fact, she can have one of mine. Since The Platinum Blonde moved to Tampa, I haven't needed one.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/4/11 8:27pm
Msg #378637

RE: ABC: "I have a right to an opinion"

Yes you do. And so does everyone else even if you don't like theirs.

You are willing to lower your fees -- great. Others are not.

You start off your posts in this thread with "i am flabbergasted that most still feel the necessity to charge the same fees as last year or years prior. " Msg #378596 Then get an attitude when others express their opinions of your statements??

Reply by JulieD/KS on 4/4/11 9:05pm
Msg #378645

Re: RE: ABC: "I have a right to an opinion"

Not only am I not willing to lower my fees, I increased my fees at the beginning of this year. It's only the second time in 8 years I've increased my fees. I was due for a raise.
I can't imagine lowering my fees when everything around me has jumped in price.

Reply by John Schenk on 4/4/11 9:27pm
Msg #378648

Where's FlashMobs? Costs going up, but SA fees lowered?

Where's FlashMobs??? All costs are going up but Julie, and the rest of us, are lowering our fees!!! Sure we should! LOL

JJ

Reply by parkerc/ME on 4/5/11 7:48am
Msg #378693

Re: RE: ABC: "I have a right to an opinion"

I increased my fees also, glad to hear Julie feels the same way. And I am still a tad below what most experienced SA's in this area are charging...but I'm also considerably above the low-ball fees that other SA's are accepting, to their bottom-line detriment. Like has been said, they get what they pay for. I will not lower my worth to provide a sale on my services, especially since our cost of doing business continues to go up.

Reply by John Schenk on 4/4/11 9:06pm
Msg #378646

Again, Ann, please clarify this!

"I urge you to clarify that opinion, however, by enlightening us as to why the closing costs for the signings is not being diminished on the HUD yet SSs, and some TCs, expect the SAs to reduce their fee for the closing as all of the REAL costs of performing the closings are rising? Can you please answer that for us? Maybe you have a REAL explanation for that which will enlighten us? If so, it may change our view, or at least my personal view. Categorically set forth why SA fees should be reduced when the closing cost fees for the notary service are not, and have not, been reduced on the HUDs. Then, we'll talk." (PRIOR POST QUOTE)

The fees charged for closings performed by SAs is not changing on the HUDs. WHY is it that SAs should be the ones hit for the fee reductions when we are truly the ones fronting all the costs for the signing itself?

"Supplementing our losses," in your mind, means taking a closing for minimum wage, or at a rate which simply doesn't justify the personal exposure that ensues with any loan closing, and the costs associated with doing that closing. SAs are asked to take the hit, while everyone above us reaps the same rewards as before with regard to the closing itself, with no change in their costs or exposure. There's something inherently wrong with that, and I believe that if you are just a SA and not a SS that you certainly must agree with that? If not, you need to reevaluate your business plan.

JJ

Reply by Les_CO on 4/4/11 7:54pm
Msg #378631

Maybe Ann's right?
Many top executives, management, and owners of title companies are really feeling a ‘pinch’ now. Business is about half of what it was. Some will have to close unless changes are made. Today many of us NSA’s are doing this part time, or as second, or supplemental income. We should give these people a break, especially those of us that are retired and only doing this so we can eat meat once a week, we don’t really NEED all those big bucks. Let’s face it, the title companies are charging the (getting scarce) borrower more, while doing less every day. But there is just not much business out there. We should do our part! Come on guy’s suck-it-up! Just think of the EXTRA profit a title company could make if we all only charged $10 for a std edoc refi! Yes our expenses have increased dramatically while those of Title haven’t, but shouldn’t we do our part? Have you seen the lease costs on a new Mercedes, or BMW? And the costs of lunch at the Country Club! $10 for a Sapphire martini! Please let’s not have us ‘little guys’ be the cause of embarrassment of those running our industry. Although having no local offices many title companies could do no business in our area, or even in our State without us Mobile Notary Signing Agents doing their closings. (What’s that worth?) I guess they could get their ‘sister’ title companies to do a ‘courtesy closing’ for them? For what? $300? Yes we provide an absolutely necessary and important service to our brother title companies, and for FREE, because the borrower pays our fees. But don’t you all honestly think it’s about time we stopped providing Title this free service, and started doing the right thing by PAYING them for the privilege?

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 4/4/11 8:00pm
Msg #378632

Is it just me?

Les, why do I see a � every time you use an apostrophe?

Reply by Les_CO on 4/4/11 8:08pm
Msg #378636

Re: Is it just me?

Sometimes that happens to me also? I usually type in MS Word, then copy, then paste. I think somehow the font changes? I at one time used arial, now trying times new roman???? I have no clue?

Reply by James Dawson on 4/4/11 8:04pm
Msg #378634

Ann is the ONLY notary listed in the area and they

could charge what they wanted; still go a negative review

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/4/11 8:32pm
Msg #378640

Good job Les! :-) n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 4/5/11 1:45am
Msg #378684

Good job Les! :-) I agree! Hit the nail one the head, Les! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/4/11 10:54pm
Msg #378675

Les, Your post has roused me from my stupor.

It makes me want to play the Star Spangled Banner and write SoX a check...and I have never even worked for them.

SoX was the first company that really knew how to make notaries work for free. A trendsetter.

I owe them...right? Don't I? Shouldn't I want to pay them?

In the final analysis, isn't that what Ann's message is all about?

Reply by John Schenk on 4/4/11 8:50pm
Msg #378643

Nothing "negative" in my post.

Actually, the fees should be higher this year than last. I wasn't paying $3.59 (some folks probably near $5 now) a gal for gasoline last year, not to mention the increase in taxes that actually net me less in spite of the cut in the Social Security tax break for this year (which I think a ridiculous move but wrong forum).

IF there were not changes in costs, which obviously costs have gone up in virtually every aspect of a mobile notary's costs, then I shouldn't raise my fees and sign for what I considered to be a reasonable fee last year, or the year before, or year before that, as costs continued to rise but my fees didn't reflect that. Not only does one have to consider rising costs, but one must also consider the possibility of getting dragged into the litigation ensuing from the mortgage meltdown.

A crappy fee for beer money isn't what folks serious about being signing agents want, and that's especially true when we see that the one that hired us is getting double our fee for the signing, or a significant amount above the signing for making a phone call and sending an email. I think SSs should make a reasonable fee. I believe TCs should make a reasonable fee. I don't believe that SSs and TCs should reap the big profits when the SAs are the ones that truly incur the real expenses, and OUR PERSONAL LIABILITY with regard to any signing we perform.

I notice you never addressed whether you were with a SS or a TC, and no doubt you are with one or the other.

"With lots of people out of work and basically homeless, i am flabbergasted that most still feel the necessity to charge the same fees as last year or years prior."

We're not out of work, and not homeless. The same fees for the closings performed by SAs are still being charged, but WE are the ones that should take a hit for a reduction in what WE charge when WE are the ones actually incurring ALL the costs associated with performing that closing? I don't think so, Ann, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

I urge you to clarify that opinion, however, by enlightening us as to why the closing costs for the signings is not being diminished on the HUD yet SSs, and some TCs, expect the SAs to reduce their fee for the closing as all of the REAL costs of performing the closings are rising? Can you please answer that for us? Maybe you have a REAL explanation for that which will enlighten us? If so, it may change our view, or at least my personal view. Categorically set forth why SA fees should be reduced when the closing cost fees for the notary service are not, and have not, been reduced on the HUDs. Then, we'll talk.

JJ

Reply by John Schenk on 4/4/11 9:23pm
Msg #378647

Re: Nothing "negative" in my post.

Didn't read all the posts before and find I'm repetative of the sentiment of the forum. Sorry.

JJ

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/5/11 6:47pm
Msg #378816

No need for apologies John.

As newer SA's read this thread they need to know that the opinions you have expressed are held by most of the professional NSA's.

Good job.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/4/11 9:42pm
Msg #378651

ANN Speak Translation?

I'm not fluent in ANN Speak, but this is what I think this message means:

Negative - there are plenty of superb notaries that will take the work for lesst,

[Thank goodness that there are plenty of notaries without a lick of sense.! They will take the work at a loss.]


they realize that in this economy

[They buy into SS sob stories...they "help them out". ]


and with the closings in a downward sprial, it's best to take the lower fee than no fee at all.

[Hopefully, this NR group is a little bit dimwitted and will believe me and agree that it is better to work for a loss ...just so SSs can make a profit. Help out SSs!]


Maybe most don't need the money and do this to supplement their other income/or business,

[Statement is smoke and mirrors; nothing to do with the subject at hand; translates literally into "I can't think of anything else to say to make my point so I am rambling."]


but most rely on this type of business to pay their bills and would rather take a lower fee

[This line tough to untangle! It is either, "Who cares if there is not a prayer of making a profit on a low , low fees?." or "Preying on notaries who can't afford to buy enough groceries for their families becomes a lucrative habit for some."]


and continue to get steady business, rather than decline work and lose the opportunity

[Why won't NR notaries believe ithis? Why won't they take more and more business at a loss until they are bankrupt...just so they can...]

to not get another call.

["...hear from more poorly paying SSs that will offer them more cheap work that they cannot make a profit on? Why???"]

With lots of people out of work and basically homeless,

[Pure FOG (fear, obligation, guilt)...FOG being blown hard here. Has nothing to do with running a "for profit" business. Skip it.]

i am flabbergasted

[I am amazed that NR posters are not stupid people! (It may say "not stupid pigs", or even "I am amazed that NR posters are not indignant shoelaces!)]


that most still feel the necessity

[Darn it! Most NR posters ignore and laugh at my rhetoric.]


to charge the same fees as last year or years prior.

[Those diabolical notaries still insist on making a reasonable profit! Curses!! They would rather not work, than work and lose money! That won't help SSs at all!]

Reply by jba/fl on 4/4/11 10:03pm
Msg #378659

ANN Speak Translation

I'm removing that question mark as I am not befuddled with her talk, or "speak". I see that others are not as well, and see that in this case, the marjority (all this time) feel the same.

We have, collectively, seen in the past, a few others insisting that these measures, as espoused (v. to make one's own; adopt or embrace, as a cause.) by Ann, are to be taken or else we will all wither and die on the vine and our children and spouses will starve due to lack of business.

Yet, when I look at the cast of characters present on NotRot today (even past month or so), I do not see those former naysayers among us. Could it be that they priced themselves right out of business? Could it be that their costs could not be supported by what they charged or were desperate to accept?

Decisions abound for us all; among the most telling about success is knowing how to price oneself or when to say, Thank you, but no thank you.

Reply by Robert Williams on 4/4/11 10:13pm
Msg #378665

Actually Ann, I've increased my fees slightly over prior years. I've done so mainly because loan closings are taking longer and I'm printing lots more pages. Yes volume is down, but making less per signing doesn't really interest me. I'm still probably lower than I should be, but I have some competitors in my area that work for less and they are welcome to the lowball side of the business.

I thought about taking less to get more business, but the economics just don't work for me. If I take too little the end result is making less than a Walmart clerk. I don't pay E&O premiums to make minimum wage. I do fewer signings, but have more time to do other things which make me money, including other types of notary work.

While I am somewhat flexible with my fees I am not in business to make sure someone elses' business survives. I read the settlement statements and I see that appraisers, surveyors and, yes, title companies are charging more than they did a few years ago. Not all, but most of the ones I see.

Reply by 101livescan on 4/5/11 9:20am
Msg #378708

Ann, I did a signing yesterday for a SS that started at 70. I got $100. The Settlement Statement showed the borrower is being charged $300. I think you're all wet!

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 4/5/11 7:00pm
Msg #378817

I think Ann has decided not to comment any longer ...

After seeing that we are not buying into her rhetoric. It might also be thanks to Brenda's translation of her posts (which is a great translation that I think hit the nail on the head). Msg #378651

I agree with you, Cheryl. I had one SS tell me the same tired line "We don't even get that much" but when they couldn't find someone else to take their lower offer called me back and accepted my fee. On the HUD the BO was being charged $75 more than I was being paid and the SS name was on the HUD. They originally wanted me to accept the job for $90 when they were being paid over $200 for it! And these low life's call US greedy?