Posted by Joeycaps on 8/14/11 7:29pm
Msg #393625

Becoming certified or not certified

I have had this argument off and on with notaries who spent the money on this I feel is a huge waste of time and money. I almost did it back in 2000. First of all, anyone who can read & write can be trained to be a signing agent in one hour or less. I trained my 5th grade nephew 10 years ago. When the docs or edocs arrive, go through them and highlight where the borrowers need to initial or sign and notarize where (you) the notary is supposed to notarize and sign. I have to say 2500 successful closings later I have never been called back to correct a mistake, but I have been called in many times to correct errors made by other notaries. The trickiest part of the loan signing process and where i had to fix notary errors most of the time is the 3 day rescission period, that can be a little tricky, especially if it falls on a holiday. But if your careful you shouldnt make any mistakes. Some signing companies want you to be certified now, first NNA gives the signing service a kickback for every one that is sent to them by the signin service. When new signing service asks me to be certified I send them a list of the signing companies I do business with and have been given tons of signings. I worked my way through college as a signing agent. When I graduated I went in the business full time. Its slowed down a little with the bad economy, but I throughout northern California I always managed to get 2 signings per day and thats while I was in College. From 2000, until 2006 I was averaging 5 per day at 50 dollars each, plus charged 10 dollars back then for edoc fee which wasn't as common as it is now. I was making more then some of my attorney friends. This is a great business, but many companies like NNA have their hands out and in your pocket, so be carefull. Some paid 100 dollars back then but not many. Now I average 2 per day which is still good, but the slowdown is really noticeable. Bottom line, is I think anyone can look at a set of docs and figure out where the borrower needs to sign, you dont need some course to show you where to have borrower sign on the line where it says signature or initial. Just my opinion.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/14/11 7:47pm
Msg #393628

Good info, Joey. Many of us fell into the "certified" trap, especially since XYZ markets it so heavily to major companies.
I did go that route, only because I felt it necessary to be competitive in the market I'm in. Also, the icon on the #s site gives a competitive edge.
We all know that the states don't license or certify, so the title doesn't mean much in reality.
BTW, I don't give XYZ another cent. It took me a while to realize their motives in this game.
Thanks for posting your experiences. :-)

Reply by Susan/CA on 8/14/11 8:00pm
Msg #393632

I agree with you on the certification part, Joey, but did I read your post right and you only charge 60 for edocs? Please tell me that was a typo. You say "some" companies pay 100.00? & you say you were getting this money back before signing companies started to cut their fees? Do you realize you could have made more than twice as much as you did back in the day (2000-2006)? I have never and will never accept 60 for edocs and I do pretty well. Yes, some of my favorite companies have cut their fees and therefore I no longer work with them, but I have found other companies (so far) that will still pay. I will never accept low fees so it's either do or die at this point. I am hoping and praying that things don't get worse. I am very surprised at the fees you were getting during the refi hey day.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/14/11 10:15pm
Msg #393650

That's what happens when I don't read the whole post.

$60 ???? I don't think so.....I don't accept fees that low, so maybe the investment I made in some training has paid off after all. ;-)

Reply by Hmac on 8/15/11 2:56pm
Msg #393707

I agree with the $60 being to low. The problem is that notaries accept the work then when you get called the company calling may not want to pay. My bottom line is $75 and that's only if I feel that A. It isn't too involved and B. If I have a good working relationship with the company, I will make adjustments accordingly. Most of the time the average is $100 or atleast in my area. Although in 2011 it's tough so in order to be competitive I feel that $90 is my new norm. Also, I think I might have been falling victim to the $100 NNA charges to become certified. I was feeling pressure to have a background check and certification. I've closed over 100 loans, as I am new to this, and really have had no need for either one. However, more recently I'm getting requests for background checks, is there a site anyone would recommend that is trustworthy and affordable for background checks?

Reply by GY_CT on 8/16/11 10:24am
Msg #393804

This might help. Try your local police department --they'll do a BGC on you for free (or nominal fee).

One of the better signing services turned me on to this. Recently they had contacted me (not only me, I'm sure!) about their new client, a the client who wanted the NNA BGC. I inquired, not wanting to put a penny into that rip-off artist's pocket, but not wanting to pass up the opportunity either. The SS suggested trying my local PD. I did, got a basic BGC, faxed it to the SS, and I was done.

So when a BGC is requested, ask them if they'll accept one from your local PD. Your state DMV will provide a further BGC which might cost $30 --still a big savings from XYZ's $100 rip-off.

Reply by Joeycaps on 8/15/11 6:22pm
Msg #393738

heads up to you MW, I always knew virginians were smart, after all it is the place for lovers. The NNA is a scam the title means nothing, when a signing company tells you to be certified. tell them what I do. thats its a waste of time and money and means nothing, tell them if you can read and write you can teach anyone to be a signing agent in less then one hour. the rescission is the trickiest part. I always tripple check the rescission dats, Ive never made an error.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/15/11 6:34pm
Msg #393743

"Ive never made an error. "

ok

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/14/11 7:57pm
Msg #393631

<< When the docs or edocs arrive, go through them and highlight where the borrowers need to initial or sign >>

Please clarify - are you using a highlighting pen or are you flagging those areas with sticky notes?

Reply by Alz on 8/14/11 8:25pm
Msg #393639

Clarification is need on your point and the fee for edocs.

Something appears to be slightly off....for a lack of better words...

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/15/11 12:04pm
Msg #393692

Just in case any newbies are reading this thread - you should never use a highlighting pen on the docs. Ever!

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/14/11 9:54pm
Msg #393648

Just out of curiosity; did the college that you attended

have an English department? And if so, did they teach you anything about paragraphs?

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/14/11 11:14pm
Msg #393654

Re: Easy Bob n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/14/11 11:47pm
Msg #393661

Re: Easy Bob . Ok , sorry, BUT, I certainly believe that in

order to be a truly effective signing agent, you need to know a whole lot more than where
the borrower should sign and initial.
You need to have a basic understanding of loan documents, in order to be able to answer basic quetions that typically arise at a signing.
Need to know the structure and logic of the HUD 1. Need to be able to show borrower his interest rate, loan term, date and amount of 1st payment, if loan can be paid off early without penalty, if interest rate is fixed, etc. etc. Also need to be familiar with typical loan documents show you can at least identify them and tell borrower their general purpose.
You can gain this knowledge from business experience in various industries, from taking a class, from reading a book, from studying the documents in a typical loan package, or from some other source. No matter, you need to acquire the basic knowledge. A "certification" is a way for a entitly that knows nothing about you to make a quick determination, that you might , in fact, have some basic level of knowledg.
Not going to get into the XYZ debate at this late hour, but I will say that I get enough calls each year from those who say that they found me at a place that will not be named and that they require that their NSAs have a certificaton and background check. That is enough incentive for me to maintain my certification.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/15/11 10:21am
Msg #393674

Re: Just out of curiosity; (laughing - I mean cracking up) n/m

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/14/11 11:12pm
Msg #393652

I became certified also, thought it would give me an edge.
I took the class after I did signings for several months. I took 45 minutes to glance through the materials and took the test. It was a wast of time and money.
If you are familiar with the forms you don't need certification.

Reply by meganPA on 8/14/11 11:30pm
Msg #393655

WOW...I think this post is absurd. You make it seem like this job is for dummies.

"First of all, anyone who can read & write can be trained to be a signing agent in one hour or less."

Really?? Statements like this are a big part of the reason why this industry has sunk so low and why there is a lack of respect for signing agents. If you are someone who just points and grunts "sign here," maybe that is why you feel this way.

Believe me, I'm not saying that a NSA course is all you need to be successful in this job. It takes experience, knowledge, patience and someone who cares about their work to be a good signing agent.

Perhaps that's why many companies are now requiring their closers to be certified. Maybe at least that way they feel assured the closer knows their stuff (whether it's true or not). I doubt most companies want regular, uneducated "notaries" and people who think that "anyone who can read and write" representing them at the closing table.

And I won't even comment on your lowball fees.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/15/11 1:25am
Msg #393664

"Perhaps that's why many companies are now requiring their closers to be certified."

My thought, as well, sadly. I also agree with whomever said that something about the original post just doesn't add up. Either this person is part of the problem, or part of a signing service paying low fees. Ironically, I have tended to agree that the certifications have been pretty meaningless, but then I didn't realize how low the bar could be set. The problem is that the current "certifications" that exist don't really prove much, either. My recommendation is for hiring parties to look for more than a certification if they want someone who is more than a point-and-sign notary.

The idea that a person can be trained to properly do a loan signing in one hour may be a common misperception about what we do. It may also be behind the desire for many to keep signings inside tc offices and/or to have them done by attorneys!

Reply by desktopfull on 8/14/11 11:34pm
Msg #393656

Don't waste your time or money. n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/15/11 10:24am
Msg #393675

It's a personal business choice for each of us.... n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/15/11 10:35am
Msg #393678

The only thing "certifications" are good for are marketing and the potential increased visibility. In just about all of these sites, a paid listing/"certification" will put you at the top (or near top) of the list. In reality, we all know it doesn't "mean" anything.... but it does have the potential to increase your visibility. I say "potential" because it doesn't always work, especially if you're in a saturated area with tons of other "certified" notaries. That's where basic business research skills come in handy.

Earlier it was noted about a particular site wherein the guy's certification test is full of mistakes. I've failed it TWICE because the correct answers aren't correct, according to him. So, in order to get certified you just have to figure out what HE thinks the answer is... hardly indicative of actual ability. It's about playing the marketing game.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/15/11 11:04am
Msg #393685

Oooh you are so right on...yesterday I

got called by a group (two couples) each wanting two POA and to establish a trust plus adding property to the trust. Eight notarizations for each couple. They called me because my profile mentioned the fact that I am an artist!

Not always necessary to be "certified" but it is necessary to have something that makes you standout from the rest when someone is looking for a notary.

All that, "I did 40,000 error free signings" or "I've been doing this for a hundred years", means nothing. IMO

Reply by LndWelch/CA on 8/15/11 11:42am
Msg #393686

Three years ago I took a course to become certified - not for the 'certification', but for the knowledge. After becoming certified I still bought books on mortgages and real estate and used the orange button that is on this site religiously. Perhaps that is why I can now get XXX.00 for a signing and the title companies know the job will be done right the first time.
I doubt your nephew would be able to say the same thing. You mentioned using highlighter on the docs.....you probably also use an ink jet printer to print them out.
Buying a home, or refinancing, is a very important and stressful decision for the borrowers. Having someone who is confident and knowledgeable about the documents they are about to sign is also important.
A signing agent is not just someone who just says 'sign here, or initial here". We are ambassadors for the title companies and lenders - we help the borrowers understand what they're signing and feel confident that they're making wise decisions in their lending process.
I feel sorry for the borrowers who have you for their signing agent. My guess is that the recession rate and error rate for your signings is extremely high...

Reply by BossLadyMD on 8/15/11 10:46am
Msg #393679

The certification course I took 10 years ago helped me :) n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 8/15/11 12:01pm
Msg #393691

Joeycaps...really? "I almost did it back in 2000..."

Hence, you accept(ed) $50 fee's with $10 edoc fees...lol...

ALMOST being the key word. Some would argue that the fee determines your worth. IMO these companies were making an idiot out of you. If you were aware of it and accepted it knowingly, makes absolutely no sense (common sense); and especially way back when the fees were triple that. They made the mega bucks off of your back. You've been a philanthropist for many years. It's too bad you didn't write that off as charity (to a FOR PROFIT cause.)

What I find even funnier is that you are proud that you did 5 closings for the price of two AND used double (or more) the overhead...lmao...double (or more) paper, toner, gas, wear & tear on printers (surely replacing them much sooner) and auto, maintenance on your auto, time, etc.

Of course they would use you to go out and fix errors because they STILL made money by using your services. Dang...lol

I'm really struggling with not asking, so I'll relent to my curiosity about what your IQ is? If you have a decent IQ, your mental capacity is in question as far as I'm concerned; because it seems to me like your 5th grade nephew may have had a higher amount than you did/do (maybe your stuck there if you're STILL accepting that ridiculous, ludicrous, obtuse fee.) I'm hoping you only accepted them in the beginning when you didn't know better, like I did...lol

I don't mean to belittle you. I'm sorry if my opinion is offensive or condescending but it just sounds simple-minded to me. I feel bad for saying those things, but it sounds very bizarre that you say it in such a flippant way.

IMO I would venture to even call it imprudent. Afterall, look what it's ultimately done to our industry. It has degraded EVERYONE's pay and allowed these shumucks that lowball us to stay in business and take advantage of those of us that are worth more than their incredulous fees.

Some people are not going to appreciate what I've contributed to this post, but I hope that newbies will understand that what you are saying is NOT the norm, and most CERTAINLY was not the norm from 2000-what ever.

To those just starting out, please don't let that propaganda deter you from getting your full worth.

Besides I am wondering if he's not really the owner of an SS...lol...or planning on opening one...lmao

Reply by NJDiva on 8/15/11 2:00pm
Msg #393700

My intuition never ceases to amaze me...

Based on mssg# 18711 from 2005...

Pray tell Joeycaps, what SS are you commenting from?

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/15/11 2:44pm
Msg #393704

To save everyone a search, paljoey was asking where

he/she could get a copy of " VR's book."
Don't know if he was referring to Victoria Rivera's "Just Point and Sign " which I, and many other
long time NSA's consider to be the bible of this biz, or the other VR's (who shall remain nameless) book, which many of the same NSAs deem to be a comic book, just not as entertaining.
Assusme that it was the latter. If he/she had read JP&S, the posts of yesterday would not have been made.
I believe that Victoiia Rivera is still a member of this board. I wish that she would post more often.
IMO, her knowledge of the NSA biz was on a par with that the late, great PAW. She was the recipient of the first and (as I recall) only Notary of the Year award of the National Association of Signing Agents. the first NSA association and message board. Some of the old members are still around.

Reply by meganPA on 8/15/11 3:45pm
Msg #393718

Re: My intuition never ceases to amaze me...

I don't think he is from a SS. Search notaries in Chico, CA. Looks like his fees haven't changed much either...

Reply by jba/fl on 8/15/11 3:59pm
Msg #393720

hmmmm - that was easy. Oh, my. n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/15/11 8:53pm
Msg #393763

Wow, indeed. WOW. n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/15/11 1:25pm
Msg #393699

I became "certified" in 2000....

for the knowledge. At the time, certification and all material for the coursework was free.
I learned a wealth of information to "kick-start" my business, and refer to the material from time to time.
I do not regret becoming certified and would do it again for the knowledge and marketing tips.
I am currently a successful Notary Signing Agent that was certified at one time.
***I do not see the point of paying annually to become certified.
I took the coursework once and that was good enough for me to put into practice.

Stephanie