Posted by Juan Jimenez on 8/14/11 4:58pm
Msg #393615

Notary "certification"?

I just had an interesting exchange with a person who runs a competing notary web site. He sent me an email offering me a "certification" package that was supposedly very valuable and would increase business. I emailed him that I didn't get it, and asked what the certification was about. His reply blew me away.

"We don't work for Massachusetts. Our directory is nationwide, and our certification attracts clients. if you want clients from our site, I recommend doing this instead of arguing."

Needless to say, I essentially told this dweeb to crawl back into his hole and delete my membership on his web site. Which he did, with a comment of "Argumentative with xxxxx".

Now, that said, I don't do notary work for a living, this is essentially pro-bono, in support of the artist community where I live (my wife is an artist). It's my way of contributing to the community. I've taken on assignments with notary agencies, but it's not one of my priorities. In real life I am an internationally recognized professional certification and accreditation auditor. I deal on a daily basis with certifications and the standards that are applied to protect their value to the industry and to those who seek the certification/accreditation. I am fluent in several languages and perform the work worldwide. When I informed this person of this, his final response was:

"When you are on my site, you owe me respect."

Into my twit email blacklist he went. Jeez, I get we get all kinds in this industry too, eh?

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/14/11 5:46pm
Msg #393618

Apparently you caught him on a good day. LOL

Certification, at least on his site, is a joke and just another revenue stream for him. I used to advertise on his site, but not any longer. Since I have stopped advertising on his site, the number of low ball offering calls have dropped and the number of reasonable calls that are willing to meet or exceed my normal fees have actually increased.

His certification test contains several wrong answers and when brought to his attention he gets defensive and childish in his responses. At least that has been my experience. I have been in the business for nearly 6 years as a NSA and have not found the need to be "certified". The only reason I took him up on the offer at that time was because it was for $5-$7 (overpriced even at that price) and I did not realize what a joke and waste of time it was at the time.

Others may believe that "certification" is important I don't fault them for that viewpoint, I just don't happen to think it is that critical. That said, if you don't do this business full time and are not that familiar with loan docs, it might be something you might think about from an educational standpoint to help you become more familiar with the paperwork involved. There are other ways as well to educate yourself on the paperwork that is either free or costs very little.

I wouldn't worry too much about him. From my experience with him, he doesn't know the meaning of the word respect and thinks too much of himself.

By the way, I think it is great that you offer your service to the art community in your area as a way to contribute to the community.

Reply by Juan Jimenez on 8/14/11 9:29pm
Msg #393642

Re: Apparently you caught him on a good day. LOL

I can't do loan docs without a lawyer's supervision in Mass., and frankly I'd rather not do them at all. There's a good reason for that court decision, IMO.

Reply by JerryhFL on 8/14/11 9:37pm
Msg #393644

Re: Apparently you caught him on a good day. LOL

What's the good reason?

Reply by Juan Jimenez on 8/14/11 9:43pm
Msg #393646

Re: Apparently you caught him on a good day. LOL

Too many people were getting ripped off or scammed by out of state companies. The way I read the history of the complaint, the justification for the decision was that ensuring an attorney is actively involved at closing gives the customer a way to get any questions or doubts cleared up that a notary cannot address because we cannot give advice or interpret documents for the signer.

Your mileage may vary. Every state is different.

Reply by MW/VA on 8/14/11 10:18pm
Msg #393651

IMO that info isn't exactly correct, but rather a

rationalization that attorneys are more qualified than NSA's. Attorneys certainly command more respect than we do.

Reply by Juan Jimenez on 8/14/11 11:43pm
Msg #393658

Re: IMO that info isn't exactly correct, but rather a

I don't think there is any question that an attorney is more qualified to provide legal advice than someone who is just a notary.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/15/11 12:34am
Msg #393663

Re: IMO that info isn't exactly correct, but rather a

That I can recall, I've done one signing for a property in an attorney state (might have been MA). We had to have the attorney on a speakerphone while we went through the signing. The borrower was from there, and was a little obsessed with the idea of having an attorney there, in case he had any legal questions. Ironically, however, this attorney (who was outside doing her gardening during the whole thing on a Saturday afternoon) kept reminding this guy over and over that she did not represent him, so she couldn't counsel him about his best interests (which constituted the vast majority of his questions). It was a long time ago, so I don't remember too many details, but I do remember being surprised at her comments.

Having an attorney there didn't seem to do this guy much more good than just having someone there who could show him where the info that answered his questions was in the documents we were signing.

Also, we've had several people here tell stories of signings done in attorney offices where the attorney was maybe in the building, but wasn't present at the actual signing. Again, I don't see how that offers much benefit to the borrower(s). These are just examples and there may be other situations where it can be of use. In fact, most of us have probably had questions come up where access to an attorney might have been useful. But I find that the rare situation, and usually something that could be handled via a phone call.

Just my 2 cents.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/15/11 6:49am
Msg #393666

Ever observe signings inside a title co's walls?

I can only speak from a Tx perspective.

The only way that a borrower gets legal advice is to hire an attorney to review the documents.

If there are five attorneys in the back room watching General Hospital, there is not a single one of them that is going represent the borrow or advise him or her.

The attorney that prepares the documents is working for the lender.

Since 2004, I have only encountered one couple who solicited an attorney's advice. They had their HELOC docs sent to his office and he presented the documents and notarized. (Obviously, this was an observed event and not an assignment I was doing.)

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/15/11 11:46am
Msg #393687

I'll second that.

I've been on both sides of the table, as a LO and as NSA, in title company. No attorney in sight during the signing. Same thing for attorney's offices. Of course, all have been in TX so I can't speak for outside of TX.

As a LO, I had never been in a closing in a title company where the signers were ever informed there was an attorney available for any questions.

Reply by Juan Jimenez on 8/15/11 8:43am
Msg #393668

Re: IMO that info isn't exactly correct, but rather a

Not sure how anecdotal evidence changes the situation here.

Reply by Joeycaps on 8/14/11 7:13pm
Msg #393624

stay away from anyone who wants to certify you. I have been a signing agent over 10 years. Im not certified and closed over 2500 loans mistake free. How hard is it. have the borrowers sign and initial where it says to and notarize where your supposed to and send docs back or whatever the signin gservice wants after the closing

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/14/11 8:20pm
Msg #393637

Re: Notary "certification"? So disappointed in you, Juan.

Look what you did. Now you are going to miss a lot of assignments that you could have done and taken a loss on. Isn't that better than pro bono or volunteerism? That is rock hard charity, man. You blew it.

Reply by Juan Jimenez on 8/14/11 9:29pm
Msg #393643

Re: Notary "certification"? So disappointed in you, Juan.

LOL!