Posted by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 6:28am
Msg #392598
Re: Florida Notaries performing Vow Renewals
Straight from the horse's mouth:
Q: May I participate in a ceremony for the renewal of marriage vows?
A: The renewal of marriage vows is not an official duty of a Notary Public. No marriage license is required because no marriage is taking place. This type of ceremony is usually done as part of a celebration of a wedding anniversary or as a recommitment by the parties to each other without any legal effect. You may participate in a renewal ceremony, but not in your official capacity as a Notary Public.
Source: "Performing Wedding Ceremonies: A Guide for Florida Notaries", published by the Executive Office of the Governor
http://www.flgov.com/marriage_ceremonies/
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 10:04am
Msg #392625
What? No takers? LOL ... n/m
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/4/11 10:14am
Msg #392626
I'm cogitating...just woke up on first cuppa coffee....
Don't be so impatient. You know that joke about the old bull and the young bull? Standing at the top of a hill looking at all the cows below? The young says to the old, "Let's run down and get one." The old answers, "Let's walk down and get them all."
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/4/11 10:59am
Msg #392637
Ok - once more. You fulminated, I cogitated, now explicating
Young Bull - take off the notary hat - set it aside. Now you are Joe Blow, who just happens to be a member of Notary Rotary because you are a notary. But you took you hat off, remember?
Roger, OH, is a very respected member of NR also and very active in OH in getting things done for the notary community in OH. He also looks with an eye to the general welfare of the notary community at large. Many of us know that Roger carries a big stick of knowledge and we listen when he raps the chalkboard.
Roger is coming to FL for a vacation and wants to add something special for his bride of 31 years. An idea forms, AHA! Eureka! Renew our vows - that will WOW the little lady! Beautiful island setting, swaying palms, beachy, buggy - oops, strike that, breezy (gets rid of bugs) - what a vision.
Now, Roger could ask the Joe the gas station attendant to do this and it would be ok. He could check with Nancy the concierge where he is staying and that would be ok. He gets another brainstorm: "Wait, I know, maybe one of my notary friends from NR would be willing to help and at the same time, I could put a face with someone I have been interacting with these past several years. What a deal!"
So Roger posits the question, probably never expecting some young bull to be pawing the ground with fulminations even when others are pointing out that it is ok. Remember, the notary hat is off - it has not been put back on. Keep it off.
And have it off in 5 years when Bitsy and James return to you asking for the same assistance since you did their wedding and "you were so wonderful, and now would you help us renew our vows?" Potential income stream - see. You are not bound by any notary laws, rules, etc. as you don't have that hat on for this. See?
Are you familiar with the comedian Gallagher? He has a whole trunkful of hats and other props on stage with him. He has a hat for whatever he is going to do in his routine. If he had a notary hat it would probably be a seal with a seal....but only while notarizing or doing jokes about notarizing.
See - you do not need the notary hat all the time. You can charge or not - it is your business to run as you see fit. You could be ordained - another hat to wear. And it is ok to have many hats, but try to wear only one at a time or you may look silly.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 12:05pm
Msg #392645
As we have discussed ad nauseum - I think we all agree
that we can perform vow renewals as individual persons, but there is some disagreement as to whether or not a notary can perform a ceremony IN HIS/HER CAPACITY as a notary. The Governor's office has given us a resounding "NO".
In Msg #392494, Sylvia indicated that a notary can perform a vow renewal because the handbook did not prohibit it. According to the governor's wedding handbook - a notary can NOT perform a vow renewal; BUT, an individual person who happens to be a notary can perform a vow renewal, but not in their capacity as a notary public.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 12:28pm
Msg #392649
To clarify...
Sylvia said "There is nothing in the Florida Statutes or the Governor's Reference Manual that prohibits a notary from performing vow renewals."
If she means "there is nothing prohibiting a person who happens to also be a notary from performing vow renewals", she would be correct. But if you want to use this type of wordplay you could just as easily say "notaries can perform baptisms", because ministers who are also notaries can perform baptisms.
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/4/11 5:09pm
Msg #392725
Re: As we have discussed ad nauseum - I think we all agree
Robert
If you read my messages closely, I distinctly said that there is nothing to notarize and nothing to be recorded. Now I suspect the majority of the members on this board will rightly interpret that I was saying it is obviously not a notarial act. So obviously it is not covered in the Governor's Reference Manual.
Yes, a notary can perform a vow renewal, as can a truck driver or a Mickey D's worker!
Obviously it is not in the capacity as a notary, or truck driver or Mickey D's worker as anyone with even the sense God gave a billy goat would understand!!!!
You really need to get off that high pedestal you appear to be perched on.
I have no idea why you felt it necessary to start another thread on the subject - other than to say "Hey, look at me, aren't I the smart one!
As the saying goes everyone likes a little a**, no-one likes a smart a**!
| Reply by Bob_Chicago on 8/4/11 12:07pm
Msg #392646
Agree , Juls. Not sure if Robert was admitting that he was
wrong yesterday, or doing a "Ya, Ya Na, NA, I told you so"
"You may participate in a renewal ceremony, but not in your official capacity as a Notary Public"
is exactly what a number of us were saying yesterday.
If I was going to be in SW Florida, next month , I would be happy to "officiate" at the vow renewal
ceremony of Roger and his lovely wife; and I am not even a FL notary.
It would not be illegal so long as I did not attempt to file any papers, and if Roger and his wife were well aware that my participation did ZERO as to changing their current marital status in any way.
An "offduty" notary can do anything that a private citizen can legally do , so long as they are not doing it in their capacity as a notary.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 12:30pm
Msg #392650
Well, I was not wrong yesterday
I said yesterday what I still say today: a notary can not perform a vow renewal; but a person, who happens to be a notary; can perform a vow renewal as an individual - not as a notary.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 8/4/11 1:56pm
Msg #392667
Good grief. n/m
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 2:36pm
Msg #392681
You disagree? n/m
| Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/4/11 2:43pm
Msg #392683
Robert, I think he's tired of seeing it dragged on... n/m
| Reply by MichiganAl on 8/4/11 3:40pm
Msg #392697
Hopefully one day you'll learn
Admitting you're wrong on something doesn't make you less of a man, it makes you more of a man.
"You would need an ordained minister." As we've established, any person can do a vow renewal. So you were wrong.
"Our handbook is quite clear - no vow renewals for notaries" Again, it doesn't say a thing about vow renewals. ANYONE can perform a vow renewal. Remember covering subsets in your high school math class? A notary is a person, any person can perform a vow renewal, so a notary can perform a vow renewal (You didn't say they can't do it in their capacity as a notary, you said they can't do it at all). So you were wrong again.
"If clerks in some counties are doing this, they shouldn't be." Again, you didn't say they shouldn't be doing it in the capacity of a clerk. You said they shouldn't be doing it at all. Any person can perform a vow renewal. Clerks are people. Clerks can perform vow renewals. So wrong a third time.
"I consider it fraud when a couple leads an audience to believe they are getting legally married when it is only an unofficial vow renewal." Well, at least you stated that as an opinion instead of a statement of fact, so I can't insist that you're wrong. But I'd love to hear about any case where someone was convicted of fraud for a vow renewal.
You're stubbornness to continually cling (and I mean continually ad naseum) to your statements doesn't make you look smart. It makes you look painfully insecure.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/4/11 5:14pm
Msg #392726
Re: Hopefully one day you'll learn
Al - if a clerk is performing a vow renewal, during normal business hours at the courthouse - they are doing it as a clerk, which is not allowed by law.
We establishes that the Governor's office has very clearly mandated that notaries can not perform vow renewals as notaries.
I don't think there is anything wrong with vow renewals - I believe it crosses into fraud when an audience is being *led to believe* that a couple is being legally joined in marriage when this is 100% not the case.
I don't need to prove to you that I'm "smart". I am a state-approved notary educator and the Governor's office believes me to be competent enough to educate others on notary law.
This is becoming a game of wordplay. "A notary is a person, any person can perform a vow renewal, so a notary can perform a vow renewal". Saying "a notary can perform a vow renewal" insinuates that notaries have specific authority to do so. If you want to say "Anyone can perform a vow renewal", then say that, but don't lead someone to believe that a notary can do it, because when you say "A notary can do this", then the average person will think that a notary, in their capacity as a notary, can perform that act.
| Reply by MichiganAl on 8/4/11 11:05pm
Msg #392748
Re: Hopefully one day you'll learn
"I am a state-approved notary educator."
Something that you manage to work into a conversation just about every other day. Nah, you're not trying to prove you're smart.
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/5/11 8:52am
Msg #392770
Re: Hopefully one day you'll learn
Al
All you have to do to be a state-approved educator is to submit a core curriculum and have it approved by the Governor's office.
I am a certified notary instructor, and have taught many classes. I have also spoke to notary groups etc. No big deal!
| Reply by Roger_OH on 8/4/11 10:29pm
Msg #392746
Spot on, Juls; sorry for the grief everybody... n/m
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/4/11 11:26pm
Msg #392750
Re: Spot on, Juls; sorry for the grief everybody...
Most entertaining discussion. I just hope we have a review later on how the event went and who officiated. I get the feeling it won't be Robert though.
cackle, cackle.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/5/11 7:02am
Msg #392761
Roger, I'm sorry for the grief for you. n/m
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/5/11 5:59am
Msg #392757
Re: What? No takers? LOL ...
I am late getting back to the party, I see.
Sometimes, a post (such as Roger's) is NOT fodder to nourish a debate about Florida notary law....it is about having the opportunity to give back to another notary.
This went off into the wrong direction. Is there a "mandate" that says that notaries cannot perform vow renewals in their capacities as individuals....Robert, what mandate? I have yet to see any law.
Yes, I know that you are a state certified educator....but, I don't care if you hold a PhD and have a top end genius IQ, I talk to some of the most brilliant scientists in the world every work day, and guess what! 90% of them know that they do not know everything....even in their fields. They insist that I call them by their first names, not Dr. They set themselves apart by their works, not by arguments. (By the way, Sylvia has been teaching for years without yhe certificate.)
Sometimes you are going to be wrong. I think that this is one of them.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/5/11 6:05am
Msg #392758
Re: What? No takers? LOL ...
Skip, the mandate question. I see the answer in your post. To me, that just proved that you are wrong...now I am really confused as to why you would bring this up again.
| Reply by FlaNotary2 on 8/5/11 8:19am
Msg #392767
What an idiotic discussion
If I am wrong for anything it is for saying that Roger would need an ordained minister. Yes, technically any person can perform a vow renewal but why wouldn't you want someone who is semi-official?
I have said from the very beginning that a notary can not perform a vow renewal in his capacity as a notary, and that is the truth. Sylvia's post seemed to indicate to me that she was performing vow renewals as a notary and that is not permitted according to the governor's office. So I really don't understand why everyone wants to give me the run around.
This thread has been a perfect example of how nasty people can be. I am done here. I had a speaking engagement this week and I have a meeting with my state representative this morning. I don't need Notary Rotary anymore apparently.
| Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/5/11 8:57am
Msg #392771
Re: What an idiotic discussion
"I am done here"
Promise????
Remember you started this idiotic discussion! So don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!
| Reply by jba/fl on 8/5/11 9:36am
Msg #392773
Re: What an idiotic discussion
"If I am wrong for anything it is... "
for getting too emotional and thinking that there is only one way, thinking in absolutes and not being the least bit flexible.
You, Robert, drove this conversation off the cliff with your stubborness, but it does not mean that you are not welcome here or that you have worn out your welcome here.
Personally, I like that you are here to answer the questions I don't want to be bothered with because I tend to be short and not "PC nice" which offends those with thin skins that want to hear what they want to hear and not necessarially the truth. You know the ones: the not quite ready for prime time players.
So go cool off, examine how this all went totally wrong, chalk it up to experience, and move on. Come back when you are ready -
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/5/11 2:19pm
Msg #392819
Re: What an idiotic discussion
Agree, jba! I like Robert being here, too. But, I think that it is within my right to be frustrated with a certain topic.
| Reply by BrendaTx on 8/5/11 2:15pm
Msg #392816
Re: What an idiotic discussion
For the record, I was not nasty to you. However, the "idiotic" remark was nasty.
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