Posted by Jeff/Va on 8/19/11 6:06pm
Msg #394298

SR. not on ID

Was scheduled for signing this evening, found out SR. was on docs but not ID. so called tc told them I could not notarize sig with SR. if not on ID, they said they would check in to it and call me. I told them before I had lined out SR. and initialed it for other refi. Was told that would not work because name on title was john doe SR. did not hear back so I called tc found out they got another notary. Was I wrong.

Reply by Cam/CA on 8/19/11 6:26pm
Msg #394301

Re: SR. not on ID. I personally don't think you were wrong.

I have heard the argument that it is OK as Sr. unlike Jr. is aquired later in life so therefore not always on the ID. I have only come across it once, I too, refused to Notarize. The company found someone else who was comfortable doing it, I was not.

Reply by Jeff/Va on 8/19/11 6:35pm
Msg #394302

This is a four star tc I thought they would have called back, now I am wondering about working with them.

Reply by Les_CO on 8/19/11 6:46pm
Msg #394304

You’re the notary…It’s your call.
If the person had proper ID (and his picture and signature looked like the signers) I would have done the signing. JMO

Reply by Jeff/Va on 8/19/11 6:48pm
Msg #394305

Thanks for the input.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 8/19/11 7:20pm
Msg #394309

Why of course his DL looked like Tom Johnson.

He has never met Tom Johnson Sr. so how does he know he has the right guy?

I am always leery of these after I had a twin sitting in for her sister who had split for the weekend with her girlfriends. The truth came out when I asked for her to give me her SSAN and she wasn't even close. At that point she got scared and said her name was Ellen not Helen and that she was just helping out her sister and brother in law.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/19/11 6:50pm
Msg #394306

Why?

They showed you no respect and tied up your time. It sounds like when you presented the issue to them rather than searching for a solution they jumped on the phones looking for someone else that wouldn't question anything.

They didn't bother to call you back to cancel the signing or inform you that they had made other arrangements. Regardless of the rating anywhere, based upon your own experience why would you want to accept future assignments from them again? Do you think that the next time you have a real issue again they will be more respectful about ditching you?

I'd look for other, more professional, clients myself.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/19/11 7:41pm
Msg #394310

Okay here's the deal, in Ca for sure.

More is better so without the Sr. on the I.D., was it reasonable to assume he was.."Sr.". You could have asked for future proof (just in case he had just used his Grecian formula) like utility bill, car registration, voter registration card, if you really wanted to help them out.

I AM NOT SAYING YOU DIDN'T WANT TO HELP THEM OUT! .....Continuing, What did the closing/escrow instructions say, that is another key. I would take what I felt, out of the equation and just followed the instructions provided,....and bitcxed later to everybody involved!

End result, you probably wouldn't get called by them anymore because you can think. IMO

Reply by MW/VA on 8/19/11 8:02pm
Msg #394312

I think PAW had discussed this some time back, his wisdom is missed but is still in the archives.
In VA a notary has a certain amt. of latitude. We're not bound that ID has to exactly match name on docs. The Jr./Sr. issue is often a complicated one. There can be a son who becomes a Jr., but the Sr. often doesn't legally change his name.
I use prudent judgement in such matters but have never refused to sign.
BTW, I had a dilly these week. Warranty Deed signing called for name to be Sr. His D/L said Jr.
Called the tc, and said no, lender told them it was definitely Sr. Turns out he is Sr., DMV got confused and has Jr. on his D/L. SS card says Sr. We ended up signing the doc with Sr. because that's who he is. I just need to be satisfied that the person is who they say they are.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/19/11 8:05pm
Msg #394314

I remember that discussion /advice by PAW and I can find it...with a little time if you desire.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 8/20/11 8:52am
Msg #394341

I concur with Marilynn about the Virginia DMV - they screw up all the time! They spell "Michael" as "Micheal" and when the person says hey that's wrong, DMV insists no it isn't or they say OK that will be another $10 to change it, so people often times just keep it as is. Had another one where DMV put the neighbor's house number on the DL (for example, they put 25 Maple Dr. instead of 24 Maple Dr.) - the person told DMV hey that's wrong. Oh really? $10 to change it please. And had one last night where they left off the last letter of the wife's middle name (example Louis instead of Louise). UGH!

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/19/11 8:21pm
Msg #394315

I do not believe that it is necessary to have Sr. on ID. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/19/11 8:47pm
Msg #394319

Well....I dunno...

If not on the birth certificate, the use of "Sr." was obviously adopted to make a distinction between two people. If Sr. is on the docs, how do you determine that the person in front of you is THE Sr.?

IMO it should be in the ID - if they went so far as to take title in "Sr." to set themselves apart, they should make their ID consistent with that.

JMO

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/19/11 9:01pm
Msg #394323

Re: Well....I dunno..another view..I am a Sr.

I had a son with my name and he was Jr....He died unfortunately and mistakenly I dropped the Sr. 12 years down the road I had another son whose middle name was different but his first name was the same.

There was lot's of confusion because people automatically assume you are a Sr/Jr if the family members have the same name.

If a person had enough common sense to look at the ID presented and look at the DOB, that would easily solve the problem of who was who.

My advice would be to make every attempt to validate the I.D. via additional info before turning it down.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/19/11 9:14pm
Msg #394324

Bingo...here are two post regarding this issue from PAW

Msg #334405 Msg #334471

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/20/11 1:31am
Msg #394333

Bingo, James.

*If a person had enough common sense to look at the ID presented and look at the DOB, that would easily solve the problem of who was who.*

Sr. is not necessarily going to be on a DL or a passport. He may not have been a Sr. before a Jr.'s birth.

My grandfather was AJS, Sr. My dad was AJS, Jr.

My grandfather never had a piece of ID (until his death certificate) that said he was AJS, Jr. His official DL/ID said he was Joe Smith. Dad's was always AJS, Jr., but there was never an AJS, Sr. in existence until my dad and aunts checked him into the nursing home.

When a person has a child who is a Jr., by what piece of ID in modern society does a person prove conclusively that he is to be designated as a Sr. on a driver's license or passport?

The Sr. is not necessary because like Sylvia said, the DL bureau does not have to provide it. Additional information must be gathered. Check the birth date on the ID and the loan app. If the name can be established, use additional intel to establish that the person is one and the same.

My opinion, not legal advice, etc. etc.

PS, My grandmother's name was E. V. L. P. S. Her DL said she was L. S. It was not until she was checked into the nursing home that her true identity became an official record.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/20/11 8:14am
Msg #394338

Re: Bingo, James.

*He may not have been a Sr. before a Jr.'s birth.* should have been said that "He would not have been..." which is my point.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/19/11 9:58pm
Msg #394328

Re: Well....I dunno...

"IMO it should be in the ID - if they went so far as to take title in "Sr." to set themselves apart, they should make their ID consistent with that"

While I agree with you Linda, try getting the DMV to add it. Some may, others won't.
It took me years to get the local DMV to replace my maiden name with my legal middle name on my license. They didn't care that it would be a problem with getting anything notarized that had my middle name or initial when it didn't match my DL. Luckily I always had my military ID.

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/20/11 1:34am
Msg #394334

Re: Well....I dunno...

*if they went so far as to take title in "Sr." to set themselves apart, they should make their ID consistent with that.*

That may or may not have been that person's choice. That may have been the title company or bank. They don't to tell a Person what to call him- or herself. They do, however, get to say what name vesting will be.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/20/11 4:53am
Msg #394337

What do they call females named after their Mom? n/m

Reply by jba/fl on 8/20/11 8:47am
Msg #394340

That's easy...

The Nancys in our family are big Nancy and Little Nancy. Little Nancy got to be Nancy when Big Nancy died. I think she misses that though.

Reply by JamesLee/VA on 8/19/11 8:41pm
Msg #394318

I personally have no problem accepting an ID without the Sr. suffix. One must assume every man is a Sr. unless he is a Jr or III and so on. I probably would have requested a second form of ID from the borrower. Its a judgment call on your part and you should be comfortable with the borrowers ability to prove he is the one signing. I don't think you were wrong,it was just beyond your comfort zone.

I am a Jr myself. None of my IDs have the Jr designation due to the fact that my father has passed and I am able to drop the Jr suffix. Only the person closets to the Sr. is allowed to do that. III and IV must keep that designation.

JLee

Reply by BrendaTx on 8/20/11 10:13am
Msg #394349

Eloquently stated! n/m

Reply by James Powell on 8/24/11 7:42am
Msg #394804

"I am a Jr myself. None of my IDs have the Jr designation due to the fact that my father has passed and I am able to drop the Jr suffix. "

And this is the problem with not being able to identify a Sr. properly. I know of a title claim that occurred because Sr. had passed and Jr. dropped the designation from his name.

The other heirs were not amused when they discovered what had occurred.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 8/20/11 8:23am
Msg #394339

Re: SR. not on ID --- Calif SOS response..

message # 133888 .

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 8/20/11 9:42am
Msg #394347

Re: SR. not on ID --- Calif SOS response. (as a link)

Thanks MrEd for the research to find the post.

I'm placing it here as a link directly to the post to make it easier.

Msg #133888

Reply by LKT/CA on 8/20/11 2:50pm
Msg #394371

Rule of Thumb

Post 133888 sums this issue up nicely: <<<Although not stated in the law, the "rule of thumb" is that the id should show more than the document.................John P. Smith may not be John P. Smith Sr., however, John P. Smith Sr., could go by John P. Smith............>>>