Posted by Marian_in_CA on 8/16/11 9:46pm
Msg #393889

Spot the errors (CA)

Just came across a blog post from a few months back from a lawyer ranting (and rightfully so!) about bad CA notaries. In the blog post he posted a PDF of a line item journal response.

California notaries will pick up this right away, I'm sure. Frankly, it's embarrassing.

http://www.foreclosuredefenseresourcecenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/M.-Pino-Notary-Log-of-Angie-L.-Nguyen-with-missing-time-.pdf

It's good to see at least one attorney knowledgeable and ranting about notarial practice.

The blog entry: http://www.foreclosuredefenseresourcecenter.com/2011/03/california-notaries-continue-to-break-the-law-in-regard-to-notary-logs-produce-your-transaction-logs/

Reply by Alz on 8/16/11 10:27pm
Msg #393894

Excellent article. Thanks for sharing. n/m

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/16/11 11:44pm
Msg #393899

Marian, I would love to figure this all out, but you're gonna have to help me on this one.

First of all, so much for privacy ... did the attorney post an actual copy of a notary log with the name of a real-live person (Angie Nguyen?)

Are the notaries he's talking about employed notaries? Not like us ICs, because I have never been asked to do any foreclosure docs. As we all know, employed notaries know nothing, thinking their only loyalty is to their employer, who also has no idea what a real notary does - besides stamp.

Also, as far as his rant about not writing in a fee, the notary did: $0. Maybe that's what the notary made - esp. if she was employed. Furthermore, many notaries find it easier to not charge anything to notarize loan docs, charging only print/travel/signing fees. Notarizations are "free."

In any case, he also mentioned something about the notary not putting in the date of the document in the journal, which is not required. As far as the copy of the log, I can't make anything out because almost everything is blacked out....?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/17/11 12:22am
Msg #393900

The notary's job (employee vs IC) doesn't matter. We all have to abide by the same laws for record keeping. What the lawyer is talking about is how he often sees lots of notaries who fail to keep proper records, including the one he posted as an example.

CA law states that each line item contain the following:

• Date, time and type of each official act (e.g., acknowledgment, jurat).
• Character of every instrument sworn to, affirmed, acknowledged or proved before the
notary public (e.g., deed of trust).
• The signature of each person whose signature is being notarized.
• A statement that the identity of a person making an acknowledgment or taking an oath
or affirmation was based on “satisfactory evidence” pursuant to Civil Code section 1185.
• The fee charged for the notarial service.
• The type of ID used including the issuing government agency, serial or ID number and date of issue or expiration



You're right that the document date isn't required... the journal this person used has a space for that, but it isn't necessary. But it *IS* missing some required details. The example he posted (which is the 4th line down) does NOT contain the date or time when the act took place. The journal entry lacks some of the required ID details. That's the point here. He posted that example as one of many that he sees, if he ever gets a response at all.

What he's saying is that much of the time he never gets a response or is told that NO records were kept. That's the scary part.

The attorney isn't 100% right here... but all told, his complaint is well-founded. That journal entry is not complete. Again, it's the 4th line down... not the ones above it. I don't know about how others keep their journals, but to me, that is one sad example.

When I've sent line copies, I've never sent anything all blacked out like that. That's just messy an unprofessional.

As for posting it... despite popular opinion, Notary Journals (in CA) are public record. Any member of the public can request a copy of a journal entry if they supply the right information. And, considering that things like a Deed of Trust is ALSO public information, there really isn't much privacy there.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/17/11 12:29am
Msg #393902

Oops... and the thumbprint is also a required element to a Ca journal entry *if* the document is a power of attorney or deed. I left that off the list inadvertently.

The point of it all is the extremely scary and sloppy record keeping of CA notaries. This attorney (no matter his specialty) is saying that he sees this ALL the time. That's the point...

From a notary's perspective, we really should be keeping proper records. Can you imagine getting your name pulled in to one of these lawsuits because you failed to keep proper records? It doesn't matter if you haven't done foreclosure related work or not. We've all notarized signatures on some kind of sensitive document.

I don't know about anyone else, but I always document each act *AS IF* I will need to testify about it in court at some point in the future. How can one do that if they don't even record the date and time the act took place?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/17/11 12:43am
Msg #393903

It seems you pretty much clarified what I suspected. This attorney deals mainly with notaries who are notaries solely because of their jobs. I have seen notaries like this- and yes, they barely keep journals (if at all), their stamps are in ther (unlocked) desk drawer, they are basically clueless. They stamp anything their employer puts in front of them and then go home for the day. I doubt they even properly ID the signer half the time.

They must think their employer will cover any liability issues they may face - if they even think of liability. At a major TC where I would occasionally be called in to do loan signings, a notary/escrow officer would ID the signers (any ID would do, expired, wrong name, missing name, didn't matter) and get the t-prints, then leave the room. Then an office flunkie would come in and get the loan signed, and write "loan docs" as the sole entry in the notary journal. As to who notarized the signatures and stamped - I have no idea ...

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/17/11 12:46am
Msg #393904

Yeah, that's really scary. And it does happen a lot.

Even though we have mandated education and exams... I swear, it's no where close to enough. Honestly, I don't know how some of the notaries in others states do it sometimes.

Th sad part is that the general public is really clueless, even a lot of attorneys, and I think most of these notaries don't realize how lucky they are to skate on some of this because most people don't realize the liability there.

Reply by ikando on 8/17/11 9:10am
Msg #393908

Timely post in that I just had a conversation with an attorney who indicated to me that he thought it was legal if the attorney affirmed to the notary, who never saw the signer, that the document was signed by the appropriate person in the attorney's presence.

I said, "That's not what the statute says." That's why I'm writing a series of articles on what a notary is, does, and is legally required to do or not do.

Oklahoma laws are very vague, and this forum has educated me a great deal. It comes as little surprise to me that even in California, the position of a Notary Public is not considered as critical as it should be.

Reply by rengel/CA on 8/17/11 11:18am
Msg #393932

I worked in an office where the other notary said to me, "I just got this notary thing because they told me to, the firm will pay any fines I might get." When I asked which of the partners will be sitting their a$$ in JAIL for her, I thought she was going to pass out.

She didn't realize that some offenses merit time in jail.

Fortunately for the people in the State of California, she soon thereafter gave up her notary commission.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/17/11 1:00pm
Msg #393949

Re: Spot the errors (CA) The first thing I notice..

No signer signature.
No idea what type of "Satisfactory Evidence": Issuing agency - id number - expiration date
I do not see the date of notarization or the time. Directly under Kind or Type of Notarial Act there is an area for DATE & TIME OF ACT.It's all right there ready to be filled in.
This is a very incomplete journal entry.

The journal
shall include the items shown below. (Government Code section 8206(a))
• Date, time and type of each official act (e.g., acknowledgment, jurat).
• Character of every instrument sworn to, affirmed, acknowledged or proved before the
notary public (e.g., deed of trust).
• The signature of each person whose signature is being notarized.
• A statement that the identity of a person making an acknowledgment or taking an oath
or affirmation was based on “satisfactory evidence” pursuant to Civil Code section 1185.
If satisfactory evidence was based on:
1. Paper identification, the journal shall contain the type of identifying document, the
governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number of the document,
and the date of issue or expiration of the document.

The Notary Public in question was incomplete in his/her journal entry.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/17/11 5:21am
Msg #393905

Just what if.....that notary was sabotaging the foreclosure by improperly (on purpose) completing that notarization. They sure as hell did a good job. Hmmmmmmmm

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/17/11 10:23am
Msg #393921

And risk big fines and losing his/her commission? Doesn't seem very likely to me. I'm more inclined to believe it's just laziness and inattention to the rules.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/17/11 10:55am
Msg #393923

...Maybe. Last night I had a guy who wanted me to put my stamp on every page of a five page Doc. I told him only one page had notorial wording (the Ack) and that's the one I will put my stamp on to do it correctly. He told me, "Oh in India they don't care about that". I told him, if they don't care why don't he just use a postage stamp.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/17/11 1:07pm
Msg #393951

Re: Spot the errors (CA) What if

at a later date Angie is requested copies of the lines she redacted?
That will be interesting for her.
Instead of redacting other information in my journal, I use post-it notes, which are removeable.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/18/11 10:52pm
Msg #394200

Re: Spot the errors (CA) What if

I'm guessing that they made a copy, then redacted the info from the copy - at least I certainly hope so! It would be highly inappropriate to black out any information in a journal, and I'd like to think that even this person wouldn't be foolish enough to line out any data in the journal itself... But then one never knows...