Posted by Jayhawk/KS on 8/30/11 2:12pm
Msg #395734

genuine degree

I just got a call asking someone if I could notarize a degree from Korea. I said I had no idea. How in the world would I know if this degree was original? I think I should refer this to the local university and a notary in the registrar's office there don't you? He said he'd call me back tomorrow. I just want to know what to tell him.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/30/11 2:21pm
Msg #395735

Seems to me that a receiving agency would need the real deal directly from the univeristy - like a certified copy of graduation sent directly to them from the university for proof of degree. At least that's the way it is with transcripts.

If this is a more informal thing, you could do a jurat with this person in which he would swear that the attached copy of his degree is truthful and correct ... but it's up to him/her to decide ....

Basically, it's not up to us to determine the authenticity of anything. If a signer wants to take an oath that something is authentic, all we do is notarize their signature on the document that states that. The content of the doc is also none of our concern. It's strictly up to the signer. We just notarize signatures.

Reply by NJDiva on 8/30/11 2:32pm
Msg #395738

That is so funny GG...exactly what my above post is about... n/m

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/30/11 2:59pm
Msg #395747

Why a jurat?

If someone brings you a document copy they've made and wants to make a document custodian copy certification statement, the notary language has to be added.

The document custodian statement is treated just like any other document. So my question is, since the notary must ask the signer if they prefer ack or jurat language, and can't recommend either, what if the signer chooses an ack for the notarization of his signature? Where is it written that it has to be jurat language with an oath? Why can't he just acknowledge his statement without an oath?

Alaways been curious about this...

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/30/11 6:56pm
Msg #395781

We all know that the degree would require a Jurat but we can't tell the customer that. So a Jurat would have to be on the same piece of paper as the degree or the customer would have to ask for one. I don't know I'm not a lawyer and can't give advice.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 8/30/11 7:25pm
Msg #395788

"We all know that the degree would require a Jurat but we can't tell the customer that. So a Jurat would have to be on the same piece of paper as the degree or the customer would have to ask for one"

Not necessarily - In Florida it simply requires a certificate attesting that the copy " is a true, exact, complete, and unaltered photocopy made by me of DESCRIPTION OF DOCUMENT)presented to me by the document's custodian, <name> and, to the best of my knowledge, that the photocopied document is neither a public record nor a publicly recordable document, certified copies of which are available from an official source other than a notary public."

Not a jurat. The original post is the type of work Paul did in his apostille service.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/30/11 7:26pm
Msg #395789

"We all know that the degree would require a Jurat "

No, I don't know. Where did you see this written? Who gave such a directive?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/30/11 8:26pm
Msg #395800

A degree needs a jurat?? HUH????

I took over all Paul's apostille work. The university send me the degree and I photocopy and notarize . And it is an acknowledgment.

The venue at the top of the notary block followed by:

On this (date), I attest that this document is a true, exact, complete, and unaltered photocopy made by me of:

OFFICIAL DIPLOMA FOR
Name on diploma (degree)


with signatures and original seal, presented to me by the document's custodian, (nmae of custodian) and to the best of my knowledge, that the photocopied document is neither a vital record nor a public record, certified copies of which are available from an official source other than a notary public.

Then I sign it, seal it, emboss it (as it is going out of the country) and send off for the apostille or whatever is needed. (sometimes they have to have Certificate of Notarial Authority, depends on whether country is a member of the Hague Convention)

So where do you get the idea it needs a jurat???

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/30/11 8:49pm
Msg #395803

Re: A degree needs a jurat?? HUH????

Just guessed. Thanks for the correction, Sylvia

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 8/30/11 9:19pm
Msg #395804

Re: A degree needs a jurat?? HUH????

You are welcome for the correction Buddy - but when you say everyone knows a certain procedure (such as everyone knows a degree needs a jurat) then someone could take that as gospel. Please don't post "guesses" as facts. (said in the nicest way, I am not being nasty)

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 8/31/11 1:06am
Msg #395820

In answer to Roger (and Buddy)

Hi, Roger, It seems this post kinda went off in a different direction ... and the answer to the original poster appears to depend entirely on individual state notary laws ...so we all should have referred Jayhawk to Kansas law.

But in answer to your question, CA notaries are not allowed to certify copies of most anything - with a few exceptions. But we can do Copy Certification by Document Custodian. In CA, the custodian's statement requires a jurat, not an ack. So Buddy is right in that regard (if that's what he meant). Basically, the custodian of the document makes a copy of the original doc, then makes a written statement about the correctness, truthfulness, whatver of the copy, takes an oath and signs. The CA notary completes the jurat.

FL notaries have superpowers to do alot of stuff (like Sylvia described) that CA notaries can't.

Reply by Roger_OH on 8/31/11 9:30am
Msg #395845

Thanks GG...

I had thought that requiring a jurat for a document custodian statement might be a CA thing.

In those states where notary copy certifications are not permitted, does anyone else have that jurat directive for custodian statements?

Reply by jba/fl on 8/31/11 9:40am
Msg #395850

Re: In answer to Roger (and Buddy)

"So Buddy is right in that regard (if that's what he meant). "

But, remember, Buddy is not right/correct; he admitted that he guessed. Guessing and posting information is never right for the reasons that Sylvia stated: there could be someone reading who will take it as gospel. That is how rumors and misiformation get started and eventually get accepted as a factoid.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/31/11 5:29pm
Msg #395929

Where is this coming from??

CA law states that the notary cannot decide which type of notarization is to be used. I also don't believe there is any mention of a Copy Certification by Document Custodian in the state issued notary handbook, so I don't think any of us can say that any type of document "requires" any type of notarization. I know that there are copies of sample documents floating around that are in common use for document custodian situations, but there's nothing official about them, however useful. In fact, it could be argued that supplying that document - with or without the jurat verbiage - is UPL.

When I find myself in a situation where a document custodian is asking for something to be notarized as an official copy, I ask them to write out their statement about it and then give them a choice as to which type of notarization they want. If I've missed something in the official SOS Handbook that says otherwise, someone please straighten me out... I'm coming up on renewal time again in a few months.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/3/11 6:01pm
Msg #396225

Re: Where is this coming from?? From here, Janet....

In a source digging frenzy awhile back, I made note of a form that is available for purchase from the xyz. It is for California notaries. I had found it on another site but then verified that the xyz was it's publisher.

Google these terms...just copy and paste them exactly like they are.

california copy certification by document custodian +5911 -gov


Results:
Links one and two are obviously copyrighted forms (same form, version 2004 and version 2007). (I'm going to try to ignore that the copyright is being violated.)

Link three contains the form in a catalog. Check it out if you really want to see that Prod. #5911 is for sale by that other outfit.

Janet, the form has been sold since at least the year 2004....I guess that is where it originated.

Reply by KTN on 9/3/11 2:47pm
Msg #396207

Re: In answer to Roger (and Buddy)

I have a related question: I have a notary friend who uses on Copy Certification by Document Custodian (in CA) for multiple documents. When I read the language, it says 'document' not 'documents'. What's the consensus from y'all? Once Copy Cert form per document, or multiple docs on the same copy cert (then requiring one sig notarized).

Thanks,

Kathy