Posted by Buddy Young on 8/23/11 2:40pm
Msg #394686

incorrect wording on CA Jurat

Did a signing today and the wording on the Jurat for signature/name affidavit was:
Subscribed and sworn to me on __________

California requires the wording on a Jurat to be in the following form:

Subscribed and sworn to ( or affirmed ) before me on this _____ day of ______, 20_____
by____________, proved to me on the basis of satifactory evidence to be the person(s) who appeared before me.

I call the tc to allert them that I would be attaching a certificate with the correct wording.

I did this because I had one a while back and attached a certificate with the correct wording. and the lender called me and said" you didn't sign one of our certificates" I explained the incorrect wording and told them I attached a loose leaf certificate.
They said" ok I'll get back to you"
they called back 10 minutes later and asked " what was the name of that certificate again?"
I said a california Jurat, it's stapled to the form you're looking at
They said " ok, i'll get back to you"
10 minutes later he called back and said " ok, we're good to go"

I bet I get a call on the one I did today. The lender just lookes for signatures and stamps on their docs.
Does anyone elce constantly deal with incorrect wording on loan docs?

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 2:48pm
Msg #394691

It may not be incorrect. Was it a "California" Jurat? If it was to be filed in Calif, then yes but if it was to be filed in another state and you were using THEIR state specific Jurat, it think it would have been okay. I wouldn't get hung up on the "satisfactory evidence" part other wise you wouldn't have gotten that far with the signing. You must have I.D. em at the very being. IMO

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/23/11 2:59pm
Msg #394694

Re: Thanks James, I was unsure so I took the safe way out n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 3:14pm
Msg #394700

sorry for the bad typing, hope you understood n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/23/11 3:19pm
Msg #394703

James, jurats in CA must comply no matter what...

Acknowledgments can be different *if* and only if the wording is required in that other state for filing. I've never found a state that has required wording for filing - even CA has to accept out of state wording if notarized out of state.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 3:30pm
Msg #394708

Re: James, jurats in CA must comply no matter what...

I agree...in Calif.....but for example....a Texas Jurat doesn't have all that verbiage.

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/23/11 3:43pm
Msg #394711

Re: James, jurats in CA must comply no matter what...

James, The handbook says " any Jurat taken in the state of California has to be in the correct form. TAKEN

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/23/11 3:48pm
Msg #394712

Re: James, jurats in CA must comply no matter what...

Right, if it's done in Texas.... but if it's done in CA, it has to be Ca jurat wording no matter what. There are no exceptions.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 5:11pm
Msg #394725

O.K. I Accept what you say

.......So, does that mean the ones I have done that DO NOT HAVE the California wording are no good?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/23/11 6:08pm
Msg #394734

Re: O.K. I Accept what you say

Well, I wouldn't say they we "no good" --- but it sounds like you may have been doing it wrong. The jurat wording used by a CA notary *must* be the approved jurat wording, no matter where the document is destined to go. State law says any jurat taken in the state must be in that form. That's not the same as the oath you administer in conjunction. The oath has no specific wording.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 5:20pm
Msg #394728

There is no prescribed wording for the oath page 12

Note:
Key wording of a jurat is “subscribed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me.” A jurat
cannot be affixed to a document mailed or otherwise delivered to a notary public whereby the
signer did not personally appear, take an oath, and sign in the presence of the notary public,
even if the signer is known by the notary public. Also, a notary public seal and signature cannot
be affixed to a document without the correct notarial wording.
*There is no prescribed wording for the oath, but an acceptable oath would be “Do you
swear or affirm that the statements in this document are true?” When administering the oath,
the signer and notary public traditionally each raise their right hand but this is not a legal
requirement.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/23/11 6:06pm
Msg #394733

That's the OATH, not the jurat wording. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 7:10pm
Msg #394742

Re: That's the OATH, not the jurat wording.


...OKAY...I'm not getting my point across. The Irony of it all for me is, it is acceptable to have a Jurat without "the proper wording" as long as someone else, from outside our state submits it. However, we cannot take THAT same blank Jurat, fill it out and send their own jurat back to them without yada yada yada. Now the kicker, who is gonna complain about it? Please do tell.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/23/11 7:43pm
Msg #394750

Re: That's the OATH, not the jurat wording.

James, you said, "it is acceptable to have a Jurat without "the proper wording" as long as someone else, from outside our state submits it."

Okay, I'm not following you here. What do you mean by "submits" a jurat? No jurat taken (the notarial act) within the borders of the state can use wording other than prescribed by law, even *if* the requesting entity sends some other kind of format or wording. They have no jurisdiction over our notarial certificates, and we have zero leeway. We must use the prescribed jurat wording, no matter what.

The only variation allowed is for acknowledgments that are required for filing in another state AND if that wording doesn't require the CA notary to certify capacity, etc. And, as I've said before, there is no state (that I've found) that actually has required wording for filing. They all (including CA) accept whatever wording may be used by an out of state notary because those notarial acts were done within the governing laws where it took place. Therefore, CA notaries, IMO, really should never use anything other than the prescribed wording for acknowledgments either. That wording exists in a specific wasy for a reason.

Reply by jba/fl on 8/23/11 8:21pm
Msg #394758

Sometimes we just do things because

it is the right thing to do. All else is irrelevant.

Part and parcel of the job: we do because right and don't worry about what others may do. That is their responsibility, their problem should one arise. Our responsibility is to do the right thing for where we are standing at that particular time and place.

We just don't worry about complaints, etc. when we do it right, either now or in 5 days, 5 years, or 5 eternities.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 8/23/11 10:25pm
Msg #394780

Re: Sometimes we just do things because

I think you hit on what the confusion is. James, keep in mind that our Handbook is intended only for CA notaries acting within our state (which is all we are allowed to do - no dual commissions allowed). Marian is right, that ANY jurat taken within the state of CA (presumably, by definition, by a CA notary), MUST have the exact CA jurat wording.

To the original poster, I apologize if this is a repetition ('cause I haven't finished reading this whole thread yet), but I wouldn't call and ask any client about notary wording. If it's wrong, just correct it. Period. The notary verbiage is your sole responsibility. You have to know what is right and what isn't and be prepared to explain it and stand up for what you've done to comply with state law, if it's questioned. For things outside of the notary certificate, that's another issue, but the notary certificate is your domain.

One exception, however, is when you find a document (usually it'll be from an out of state title co) that combines notary verbiage with the content of the document itself. Sometimes this is done in such a way that it's not real clear exactly what they want. In that case, by all means ask them if they want a jurat or acknowledgment or both (or sometimes "Do you want me to notarize this or sign it?", like with some ID Affs.) But they can't dictate to you what verbiage your notary certificate should have.

Reply by kathy/ca on 8/24/11 10:51am
Msg #394820

Like Marian & Janet, I ALWAYS use CA certs no matter what n/m

Reply by topflyt on 8/23/11 7:12pm
Msg #394743

Re: There is no prescribed wording for the oath page 12

But it looks cool!

Reply by jba/fl on 8/23/11 3:07pm
Msg #394698

Most of us just line diagonally through the notary block, write "see attached", initial, and then attach a compliant certificate. Most of us never hear another word either.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 8/23/11 3:15pm
Msg #394701

That's what I do, jba/fl. No problem after almost 6 years.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 8/23/11 3:17pm
Msg #394702

It happens all the time...

If I don't have room to stamp the jurat and I have to attach a loose form, I actually line through the bad wording, and I have a stamp that I use on that page that I initial. It says, "Please see attached for CA Gov't Code 8202 compliant jurat."

I have a similar one for acknowledgements, too. I designed them myself and use them regularly.

You can see samples at: http://www.highdesertnotary.com/images/attachstamps.jpg

It works every time and helps prevent those phone calls asking why I did this or that. It also gives them a clear reference to look up if they have any questions.

Reply by garland/CA on 8/23/11 3:25pm
Msg #394706

very cool Marian! n/m

Reply by Molly/Ca on 8/23/11 3:33pm
Msg #394709

Re:I like!! :) n/m

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 8/23/11 4:26pm
Msg #394720

I had a stamp made up :

***Notarial Certificate attached.
Once I line through the incorrect notarial certificate, I use the stamp on their certificate to see that I have attached a notarial certificate.
Attached: with a staple...
I've never had any issues.

Reply by Calnotary on 8/23/11 7:26pm
Msg #394746

What happens if you use a wrong jurat wording in a loan

package. Like the example above(I am not saying he did). That someone uses a jurat and that document will go to another state does that means the notary certificate was not executed correctly, the loan is not valid then and the borrower can use that excuse to get out of his/her obligation ?

I had one time a lady that by the time I got there she already signed all the documents, I told her that she will need to sign all the jurats in front of me again and I had to put her under oath. She had no problem with that. Ack are ok I think but no the jurats.

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/23/11 9:08pm
Msg #394774

Re: What happens if you use a wrong jurat wording in a loan

Probably nothing, but there is that small chance that something will go wrong and the notary held responsible.
I would have done the same thing with the lady that signed ahead of time. I think you were right on with that one.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 8:59pm
Msg #394768

Buddy please forgive me for highjacking you post I

didn't mean for it to go this far honestly.

Reply by Notarysigner on 8/23/11 9:00pm
Msg #394769

meant to type YOUR post n/m

Reply by Buddy Young on 8/23/11 9:02pm
Msg #394771

Re: Buddy please forgive me for highjacking you post I

No problem James, this forum helps us hash things out untill we get it right.
I've picked up several tips here. I think I'll be using the line out the incorrect Jurat, inital, and see attachment. I think that's the best way to go.

Reply by linda/ca on 8/24/11 12:51am
Msg #394796

Re: Buddy please forgive me for highjacking you post I

Good idea, Buddy, to use the draw a line through the incorrect wording and write "see attached." It appears that the document must have been stuck together somehow and that's the reason you received several phone calls....they did not notice the attachment and see attached would have alerted them. I would think most companies know to look for attachments, especially when using Jurats, when dealing with us California folks by now! :-)