Posted by Notarysigner on 12/20/11 3:23pm
Msg #407125

A Notary request Xmas present from me!

Lender/TC contacts me and tells me I improperly notarized a Doc (they provided) and want me to send in two Jurats because I'M holding up funding. I ask them to tell me what I did incorrectly. Long pause between emails. Then I'm told I notarized two Docs (they sent) that have the improper verbiage. I tell them THAT verbiage is ok in some states, just not California. They tell me it is my responsibility to make the corrections when they send incorrect Docs. Funny, I thought my job was to notarize signatures.

O K, I really don't want to use any bad words just before Xmas so I ask for the name of the Docs and an example so I will have it for my Journal records. What, O.K. THEN %#@& #@$%% Oh and by the way, the last 15 I did for you are all done the same way so I guess that funding is being held up on those also huh?

WARNING...KICKER....WARNING KICKER

They tell me to email ( e m a i l ) the properly notarized and stamped DOCS.

At first I didn't want to post this but, this is about the most stupid request I've gotten all year! Merry XMAS everybody!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/20/11 3:33pm
Msg #407128

Anytime anyone claims you made a mistake on a document ALWAYS insist that they send you a scanned copy showing the error so that you can see it for yourself. If they aren't willing to do that, it immediately makes me think they're trying to pull a fast one.

I'm a little confused, though. Did you correct the jurat to the required jurat verbiage for CA? If so, they can blow smoke, because that's what we're supposed to use regardless of where the document goes. If you didn't, then yes, you should have.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/20/11 3:49pm
Msg #407130

I did after I checked where the recording was to take place, the kicker for me was, the email request, usually it's overnighted.

I have no doubt the loan was funded, because all the others were with no problems. They just lied then made the request to email the Docs.

It just makes since to send the CORRECT Docs in the first place. They never sent me a copy of my Docs, just said I improperly notarized the Docs.

There's a big difference between attaching the correct Docs and correcting Docs they send out in the package,...to me!

Reply by HisHughness on 12/20/11 4:03pm
Msg #407133

You didn't answer the question, James.

Janet did not ask about the documents. She asked about the notarial certificate, and whether you had substituted a California-compliant certificate for one that was not compliant. And if the certificate provided was not compliant, and you did not substitute, she said you should have. Which would be my position also.

Reply by Notarysigner on 12/20/11 4:18pm
Msg #407137

Re: You didn't answer the question, James.

DO you also email them. Do you feel it's you responsibility to correct incorrect Documents? I don't. I p/m Janet my response as it was directed to her, I didn't know I would have to answer to you, but them again I guess I should have emailed you too huh?

Reply by HisHughness on 12/20/11 4:40pm
Msg #407140

You don't owe me anything, James.

You especially don't owe me attitude.

Janet's question was posed on an open forum. You responded on an open forum. That response did not answer her question.

The notarial certificate is exclusively the notary's responsibility, and it IS the notary's responsibility to correct an incorrect certification.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 12/20/11 10:35pm
Msg #407164

CA Notary law for Jurats

Our Jurat wording must be used, no matter, what state it is returned to.

CA is the only state that requires identification for Jurats. CA wording must say:

"proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence to be the person(s) who appeared before me."

We can use another state Acknowledgment wording, if the document is going to be returned to that other state, but all CA Jurats must have our wording without exception.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/21/11 5:09am
Msg #407169

Re: CA notary law for Jurats....correction Joan

CA is NOT the only state that requires identification for Jurats.

Our jurats (and our acks too) must contain wording "who provided ______________ as identification".

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/21/11 5:10am
Msg #407170

Meant to say "here in FL our jurats (and acks too)...." n/m

Reply by Buddy Young on 12/20/11 5:37pm
Msg #407144

James,

I did that once: notarized two acks with improper wording and they didn't record.

I had them sent back to me so I could attach two loose leaf acks to the originals. I haven't heard yet if they recorded.

Any ack or jurat taken in the state of Calif. has to be in the required wording, you know that. If it's not properly worded the recorders office won't record.

Reply by Buddy Young on 12/20/11 5:44pm
Msg #407145

James,

We've talked about this before: any ack or jurant taken in Ca. has to be in prescribed wording.

First of all I wouldn't email correct acks or jurats. I would require them to send the incorrect ones back to me so I could complete correct ones and attach them to the docs.

You could email them, if first they emailed you the incorrect ones, then follow up with the originals in the mail. Any way if you filled out acks or jurats with incorrect verbage, it is your responsibility to correct the mistake.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/20/11 7:21pm
Msg #407153

I don't know CA notary law, but does it actually say the

NP MUST correct the notarial certificate if its in the wrong verbiage?

IL laws are so damn "lax" for lack of a better word, that the SOS provides us with "sample" notarial certificates to use but that these are not mandated to be used.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/21/11 3:22am
Msg #407168

Re: I don't know CA notary law, but does it actually say the

Yes, I think our direction is pretty specific about that. Our state notary handbook says "Any jurat taken within this state SHALL BE in the following form:..." [Caps added by me.] So any CA notary should be responsible to make sure that the exact provided verbiage is used on all jurats they execute.

It now says pretty much the same thing about Acknowledgments, with just a couple of exceptions:

"A notary public may complete a certificate of acknowledgment required in another state or jurisdiction of the United States on documents to be filed in that other state or jurisdiction, provided the form does not require the notary public to determine or certify that the signer holds a particular representative capacity or to make other determinations and certifications not allowed by California law.
Any certificate of acknowledgment taken within this state shall be in the following form:..."

I interpret "filed" to mean recorded, so unless it's a recordable document and I'm able to find out what verbiage is recommended by the state where it's to be recorded, I'll use an loose certificate if the wording isn't correct.

And I agree with Hugh that the notary certificate is our responsibility, so we should make sure it's correct, regardless of what is pre-printed on the document.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/21/11 10:27am
Msg #407191

and I believe therein lies James point...

I believe this was James point, and I'm not speaking for him, but from what I understand of his post, is he did agree with his hiring party that yes the verbiage on those two certs were incorrect for CA purposes but most likely accepted in other states. What he didn't specifically state was whether the property was in CA and some here assumed it to be the case and pounced on him for not following through.

However, the CA law you provided doesn't specifically state that yes, the notary MUST change the notarial cert to make it compliant. It just states that any cert of ack taken within the state of CA be in the a certain format. How is it then the notaries responsibility when the law doesen't specifically state that the notary is responsible to ensure this compliance? It just has been assumed, and perhaps incorrectly by many CA notaries. I don't know.

IMO, its totally the responsibility of whomever is creating the loan docs, to ensure all those docs be in complete compliance both on all federal and state levels which includes using the correct notarial certs as well.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/21/11 10:37am
Msg #407193

I disagree....first of all no one "pounced" on James

Second...." its totally the responsibility of whomever is creating the loan docs, to ensure all those docs be in complete compliance both on all federal and state levels which includes using the correct notarial certs as well"

Absolutely not - it is entirely up to the notary to make sure that the certificate they are completing is correct. And no notary should be completing and signing a notarial cert that is not state-compliant.

JMO

Reply by lyndie on 12/21/11 12:08pm
Msg #407213

question for CA notaries

Ok I understand that CA notaries must use the CA wording for any Jurat they are performing, regardless of what state the document will be filed in. As far as acknowledgements, I would like to know if most of you go ahead with the other states or documents acknowlegement wording if it is going to that other state.....or do you go with our Calif loose certificate?

I am asking because my other CA notary friend always goes with the Calif. loose certificate regardless, and I was telling him he really didn't have to.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/21/11 1:18pm
Msg #407236

Re: question for CA notaries

There are a variety of different opinions on this, but I will only go with the other's verbiage if 1) it's a recordable document (who knows where the rest of the documents will end up...), 2) I've checked to see if the provided verbiage matches that published by an authority from that state, and 3) it doesn't include a statement about capacity or personal knowledge as a form of ID, since that is no long allowed in California. Otherwise I also attach my own certificate.

As for the question above, yes, I think the document preparer should provide the right verbiage, but I don't think we'll be able to count on that until he!! freezes over... It's my signature and stamp that goes onto the certificate. Also, I believe there's language somewhere in our handbook (which I don't have time to look up right now) that talks about penalties for not completing a proper notarization. Regardless, I've always considered it part of our job to make sure the notarization is correct - and that includes all aspects of it. The document provider can do whatever they want with the documents. (That can create all kinds of other issues for us as NSAs, but that's another topic.)

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/21/11 1:16pm
Msg #407234

<<And no notary should be completing and signing a notarial

cert that is not state-compliant>>

I think this statement is horse $hit, but am curious Linda as to your reasoning for stating this?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/21/11 1:47pm
Msg #407243

Umm...that's a rhetorical question, right? n/m