Posted by Eva75Eva on 12/5/11 11:35am
Msg #405799

Deplorable Signing Conditions

I had a closing this morning on the cold filthy concrete steps of an apartment complex in a not-so-affluent-area of my county. I'm sure other notaries have had worse experiences than this. In fact I've read about signing on the trunk of a car, in homes of hoarders with 40 cats and the pungent smell of fecal matter, rude/nude borrowers, etc.

But honestly, any closing devoid of a decent table and chairs to sit at is deplorable to me. The assignment was trouble from the get go. I would have rejected it but they suckered me into it with a call late Friday night. I did not get home from my last closing until about 11:00 p.m. to read the confirmation. It was full of 25 pages of ridiculous instructions, one in particular, my pet peeve-DO NOT CALL THE BORROWER. I didn't know what to do. Who's gonna be there on a weekend for me to call back and reject it? I decided to take a chance.

I never like showing up cold turkey. When I got there, the security buzzer was out of order. I disobeyed their instructions and called the borrower. It took several rings before he answered the phone. His tone was gruff and it sounded like I had woken him up. It took him almost 15 minutes to come down to the entrance, meanwhile I'm standing out in the cold freezing my butt off! I didn't show it, but I was furious. In addition to that I was not invited inside. He was very hostile towards me and insisted on just signing right there on the concrete as apparently there was no table to sign at in the apartment. I was speechless. Not even a nearby picnic table!

I had to crouch down on the disgusting gritty gum residue hard ground and hand him each document while he just stood and plastered each page against the glass entrance door to sign. At some point there was an issue with one of them and he just threw the pen down on the ground at me and ran back inside. Apparently he was going to get his cell phone and call someone but this guy was so scary I thought he was going to come back out with a gun. I almost started saying a prayer of penetance, half expecting him to come back out and shoot me, the other half wondering if I should just run for it. Thankfully another neighbor was coming out at the same time he came back and there was just a phone in his hand. After that it wrapped up pretty quick. I packed up all the documents and left without ever receiving one smile or gracious remark. It was enough to make me cringe and crawl back into bed and hide under the covers for the rest of the day.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/5/11 11:41am
Msg #405800

After several outdoor, or car hood, or coffee table, or dining table all covered with junk signings, I have a standard line in my confirmation call:

"We're going to be shuffling about 125 pages of documents between us, so we're going to need some working space, something like a dining table that's been cleared off."

I don't do coffee table signings. There are some advantages to being both a curmudgeon and and Olde Phart.

Reply by Eva75Eva on 12/5/11 11:50am
Msg #405802

Thanks, Hugh! Especially when the docs are all legal size you can't sign on something like a Starbucks table that is the size of a postage stamp. Unfortunately, I had none of those options available to me: an actual table to sign on and the ability to confirm with the borrower prior to the appointment.

Reply by CinOH on 12/5/11 3:31pm
Msg #405818

Same thing here. I always ask for a CLEAN cleared off dining room table during the confirmation.

It seems redundant, but people were clearing off the junk without washing the filthy table underneath it.

Several signers have fessed up that they don't have a table or that their table is too full of junk to use. And THEY suggested we meet at a restaurant.

Reply by Victoria_NJ on 12/9/11 7:36pm
Msg #406187

You are the one in control of the signing

Please don't ever do that again, just for your own safety!

When I was personally doing closings and arrived at a house with screaming kids, dimly lit rooms, no place to sign, etc. I'd tell the borrower my "requirements"

1. The children need to quiet down. If they are not going to bed, then I will start with Mr. Jones first, while you, Mrs. Jones, entertain the children in another room. When I am done with Mr. Jones, he can take over for you and it will only take 10 minutes for you to sign since Mr. Jones has already gone over everything with me.

2. I'm sorry, but I have night-blindness. Is there another light or table lamp we can bring in so that I can see better? Thanks

3. We'll need to move into the kitchen/dining room so that we've have enough room for us to sit at one place.

4. Outside? Oh gee, I'm sorry that is just not possible. I can't be responsible if a document (gets wet, blows away, get snatched by the dog, gets mugged by this guy walking down the street). I need to be inside, in a brightly lit room, preferrable at the kitchen/dining room table. <BIG BEST SMILE>

In 25+ years, I've never had one single person argue with me.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/5/11 11:48am
Msg #405801

"It took him almost 15 minutes to come down to the entrance, meanwhile I'm standing out in the cold freezing my butt off! I didn't show it, but I was furious. In addition to that I was not invited inside. He was very hostile towards me and insisted on just signing right there on the concrete as apparently there was no table to sign at in the apartment"

I think (no, I KNOW) this would have been my breaking point. I'd have packed up my things and said "meet me at <MacDonald's> or <insert nearby public indoor place here> in 10-15 minutes to sign as we can't do this here". No way would I have sat outside in the freezing cold to sign on cement. I'd have left, calling my hiring party and letting them know the change of venue and ALSO letting them know the LO should be shot for putting me in that predicament!!!

But that's just me.

Reply by Eva75Eva on 12/5/11 11:58am
Msg #405803

You're right, Linda and I was almost at the breaking point but I had another appointment to get to right after that one and did not want to waste any more time on this guy, who appeared to have just barely gotten out of bed and was not an easy person to deal with.

Reply by Karla/OR on 12/5/11 12:06pm
Msg #405805

Eva~ wouldn't that have been fun to be a 'fly on the wall' to see the expression on his face had he come back out to see that you had left?!! And perhaps this particular 'work of art' might not have even got the point, who knows. It takes all kinds doesn't it? Sorry you had to experience this.

Karla

Reply by Calnotary on 12/5/11 12:01pm
Msg #405804

This morning when I took my kids to school it was 27F outside. I would never do what you did Eva.
If he wants to sign in the cement stairs I would have invited him to my vehicle at least or appt has to be rescheduled either with me in a closed area or have someone else do it. Do you think the pizza guy will wait for you in your door for FIFTEEN MINUTES???? Why would you???

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/5/11 12:55pm
Msg #405807

New rule: "Pizza guy rule"

There has been endless discussion on NR over the years about how long to wait for a no-show signer. Half hour, 20 minutes, whatever? I'll be using your rule from now on - I wait as long as the pizza guy waits. Or as long as the cable guy waits. Everybody knows how long that is ....

Reply by JulieD/KS on 12/5/11 2:21pm
Msg #405810

Re: oh my....the things we endure!

Here are some of the more memorable signing locations I've had:
- sitting on the floor at a coffee table;
- standing at the kitchen counter in a house with no furniture;
- sitting in a folding chair in a driveway with a tv tray as the table while the borrowers conducted their garage sale;
- standing in a garage using a pool table for a table because their kids were so sick, they wanted to protect me from it;
- in a filthy, horribly stinky house filled with rescued St. Bernards;
- in an un-air-conditioned house filled to the brim with junk using my lap as the table;
-in another un-air-conditioned house where I wasn't allowed to come in past the hallway and we used his console stereo to sign;
- in a house at a nice table but there were so many cats, they were walking on the paperwork, walking across my lap, plus getting into my briefcase......
- on a beautiful deck overlooking a lake while the borrowers enjoyed a glass of wine and the companionship;
- in the front seat of my car;
- in a hotel room;
- in a hotel lobby;
-McDonalds, Wendys, Starbucks, Borders....

One thing I can count on is never know what to expect. I am adaptable, flexible, agreeable and temperate. Whatever happens, happens and I've managed to deal with it all (sometimes doing my level best to not scream). I meet the most lovely people (and...a few real creeps).

I wouldn't, however, wait for more than 15 minutes past the scheduled time...and I also would not sign on concrete steps outside if the temperature was below 55. So, in your situation, I'd have done what someone else suggested and told him I'd meet him at McDonald's.

Reply by CH2inCA on 12/5/11 2:24pm
Msg #405811

Re: New rule: "Pizza guy rule"

I like the "Pizza guy rule"!!!

I'd also like to schedule like the cable guy...
'we'll be there sometime between 9:00am and 5:00 pm'

:0)

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 12/5/11 3:08pm
Msg #405816

cracking up over the cable guy's hours...luv it. n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 12/6/11 10:35am
Msg #405873

Don't some TC's already use that rule when it comes to docs? n/m

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/5/11 3:36pm
Msg #405819

That's a horrible scenario - I'm sorry you had to deal with

such an ignorant individual or go through that type of closing from hell! Thanks for sharing.

And your story is a good reminder for all of us NSA's to, as best as we can, always take control of our closings. Had you been able to contact the BO's, I'm sure you would've explained the process and perhaps mention that you would need a place to go over the documents, etc.

Perhaps your hiring party could give you a few extra bucks as an accomodation? I'd ask for one!

I'd also put mention that ridiculous "no call BO or else" rule when you review that company here on SC and link this post to them! THAT WOULD HELP US ALL!

Seems that some of these companies, such as the one that hired you, can't tell the difference between an independent contractor and an employee!

Even if your hiring party insists on not contacting the BO, make sure you confirm via email to the hiring party that the BO should have a safe (dry & heated) place for you to sit down, like a kitchen or dining room table, and NOT a frickin concrete slab in a hallway. Nor a coffee table or end table - brings back my beginning dayz, and ouch - my back is already aching at the memories! =)

Again, I can't stress the importance of the NSA's taking control of each and every closing situation, so as to avoid a fiasco closing such as the one you described.

Hope you're feeling better though and drank something warm, like brandy!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/5/11 5:24pm
Msg #405829

New rule: Vertical at all times

My secret to coffee table/living room sofa signings is that the borrower does the bending, leaning, twisting, straining, handing back and forth, etc., not the notary. This is, of course, after I have already politely yet firmly told them (or more acurately, warned them) that a kitchen/dining room table is the only way to go .... but still they grunt and insist on the most uncomfortable and usually darkest place in the house (have your tiny mag light ready for your use).
The rule is for you, the notary, from your hips up, to remain parallel at all times to the walls, no matter how far down you have sunk in the sofa cushions. (That might be a good rule to follow during most signings ... but that's another story.) Anyway .... you hand the borrowers each document page as far as your arm will reasonably and naturally extend, and when they realize that's about 3 feet short of them, make them come to you. When they hand it back, DON'T lean toward them, no matter how tempting. Think of a string going from the top of your signed document, and if you have to, say sorry, can't reach it. After all, you already warned them. This has worked pretty well for me lately. And no aching backs - at least not mine.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/5/11 5:28pm
Msg #405832

Vertical woops

Woops.... lost a sentence. That was supposed to read:

Think of a string going from the top of your head to the ceiling and that the string cannot move. Then have them place the signed document in your hands and if you have to .....

Reply by Don Courtney on 12/5/11 6:12pm
Msg #405833

Re: New rule: Vertical at all times

When dating, it is always best to make sure the girl does not apply the vertical at all times rule...otherwise I would need to decline that particular dating opportunity

Reply by SharonMN on 12/6/11 4:19pm
Msg #405907

Signing conditions

OK, I must be the luckiest notary in the world. The table is always ready and cleared for me (occasionally I have to wait a couple minutes for them to clear the dinner dishes but that's very seldom). In most cases the borrower's home is very clean. The dogs and cats usually introduce themselves politely and then quietly camp out under the table or leave. More often than not I am offered a drink. I am told to drive safely when leaving. I have been given cups of coffee in borrower-provided to-go cups, and once (in a snowstorm) I was even given some wrapped-up homemade coffee cake for myself and my boyfriend who normally doesn't accompany me to signings but in this instance was waiting outside in the truck.

I can only remember once when I was asked to use a coffee table (it was fine) and that was at 10:30 pm because the bwrs' teens and their friends had already commandeered the kitchen table for some kind of web-based gameathon!

Minnesota nice, you bet!

Reply by Eve/VA on 12/7/11 7:55am
Msg #405935

Re: New rule: Vertical at all times -- & Lighting

Funny you should mention carrying a mag light. I'm going to start carrying one and lightbulbs. My vision is perfectly fine but I'm running into interior lights being too dim. What's up with folks and burnt-out lightbulbs over their dining room table? I asked a borrower (nicely) the other day if his chandelier was on dimmer. He said, nah, just needed to replace some bulbs. Really?

Reply by Linda_in_MI on 12/5/11 5:11pm
Msg #405826

No contact BO rule not always set in stone

I occasionally get contacted by a SS who has as the first sentence in the confirmation DO NOT CONTACT BORROWER IN ADVANCE. Fortunately, somebody at the SS or lender must do their homework and prep work with the BO before I get there, since I have yet to experience anything close to the kind of drama like you experienced.

But even with the do not contact statement, there have been times when I asked and was given the OK to contact/confirm with the borrower on the day of the appointment. So I guess I'm trying to say always ask. And if nothing else you can share and use this as an example of why it is vital for you to talk with the BO.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 12/5/11 10:32pm
Msg #405849

Once burned, twice shy, wisdom dictates. The Rules change

once the boots hit the ground, and cold-calls impede the work-flow, safety, and, quite honestly, plain common sense.

"I" made the appointment confirmations - a must for all concerned - it's like the "personal" in Personal Service of a court doc, but in my "personal" connection with the borrower(s) before *business* can be conducted.

Every other Professional is afforded that essential element in conducting business.

Jmnsho

Reply by LKT/CA on 12/6/11 5:34pm
Msg #405911

Your experience is a good learning lesson for ALL Notaries: When mapping the borrower's address, also map out the three closest fast food restaurants (or donut/coffee shops) to the borrowers. This way, if the signing location is not conducive to a productive signing appointment, (i.e. bug infested house, filthy house, cigarette smoke filled house, too many animals, hoarders, too many kids, etc.) then the notary can reroute the appointment to a place suited for signing.

No way would I have stood in the cold waiting - then signed docs on concrete. We would have moved the appointment to a booth at Taco Bell or <any fast food place> or the signing wouldn't have happened with *me*. Thanks for sharing.

Reply by NJDiva on 12/6/11 9:55pm
Msg #405928

I'm with Lisa on this one...lol

Cuz I've been subjected to all of those "i.e.'s" and the "etc." too! Standing out and signing in the cold would have been a nope, huh uh, nadda, no way, ain't happen, fogeddabout it situation!!!!!

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/6/11 6:09pm
Msg #405915

Well ... you got a good story out of it!

It happens. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often - although 'location, location, location' would be key to that.

Immediately after it happens, you sure don't want it to happen again - and we go through all these queries of how to prevent it. Odds are (again, location dependent) it will be a long time before it happens again. I roll with it.

Sometimes, the story you get out of an experience has its own value. =)