Posted by Barb25 on 12/30/11 10:34am
Msg #407898

Notary Certification on Note in Virginia???

What is the story with the notary certification on the bottom on the note (after borrower signature) on a note for a Virginia property?

It reads:

This is the note described and secured by a Deed of Trust dated Dec. xx, xxxx, on the property located in XXXXXXXXX/xxxxxxxx, Virginia.
_____________________________
(seal) Notary Signature
___________________________
etc.

I called title to question. and they said not for me. Now saying My bad.....They never said that. I am in Florida. Never saw this before. To my knowledge, We don't do this. Quality Issue Really.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 12/30/11 11:29am
Msg #407904

Sounds like it's for the title or mortgage company. In Maryland we have an acknowledgement stating the dot is bonified. The closing agent is not required to notarize. Doesn't sound like an issue to me.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/30/11 11:34am
Msg #407906

This is a paraph

It originates in Louisiana - I am not sure why so many notes drafted in Virginia contain it. A traditional paraph is "Ne Varietur for identiffication with Act of Mortgage passed before me on December 30, 2011", followed by the signature of the notary. Its purpose is to make sure that the note references the mortgage to make sure that they don't get separated. It can be used with any instrument that has exhibits or attachment, but it is pretty much exclusive to Lousiana's civil-law notaries.

The intent is that the notary who notarizes the mortgage also signs off on this certification on the note. I might sign it but not affix my seal on it - I don't see a problem with this. It can't be replaced with an acknowledgment, because that just isn't the point.

Either leave it blank or sign it without your seal. MHO

Reply by CinOH on 12/30/11 11:39am
Msg #407908

Had a similar situation with a VA note recently.

Called Title and was told I had to notarize that statement. I told them I'm not qualified to do so. I'm not a lawyer and I'm not qualified to certify the veracity of what is in legal documents. Also, I did not draw up those docs and don't know what is in them.

I got quite a runaround from Title and finally told them that I would have to turn the closing back to them. At that point they relented and said someone there would certify that statement.

I have the whole exchange in email, so they'd better not try to change their story.

At the point a notary certifies something like that then we're no longer impartial. I have no interest or business certifying anything regarding the contents of a Note or DOT unless I'm making a copy and certifying that it's a true and accurate copy of the original.

I've seen that language before but it's always been marked reserved for a title co. or lending representative. The title company I dealt with told me that only one of their lenders require that language on some of their notes, but not all.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/30/11 11:43am
Msg #407909

Huh???

>>>At the point a notary certifies something like that then we're no longer impartial.<<<

This certification isn't asking the notary to certify that the information in the note is correct. The notary is only certifying that *this particular note* goes with *this particular mortgage*. If you are acting as a signing agent you know that the note goes with the mortgage. I think some people get too excited over this.

Reply by Barb25 on 12/30/11 12:56pm
Msg #407917

Re: Huh???

I agree but why is the notary certifying this. Why not lender or title? Just sayin'? I dunno....

Reply by CinOH on 12/30/11 7:21pm
Msg #407933

Re: Huh???

*Sigh*

Didn't say that the certification is asking the notary to certify that the information in the note is correct.

The certification is asking the notary to certify that the note secures the DOT.

Being a "signing agent" does not give me the knowledge, ability, or expertise to certify that any particular legal document in fact secures another.

It's not within my realm of responsibility or expertise as a notary or a "singing agent" and it does breach impartiality to certify documents on behalf of the lender that I do not know or have the knowledge to know, with certainty, to be true.

How could I? Because the address on the two matches up? Or the dates are the same? Or just because they're in the same package? Or because title told me it's true? Nope. I don't know that any note secures any mortgage. I assume they always do but I sure don't know it.

I don't draft documents and I sure am not going to read the 15-20 pages of legalese in a mortgage. Even if I did I'm not trained in mortgage law.

I do not work for the lender or title. They prepared the documents and they should certify if one secures the other. That is the title company, lender, or their attorney's job. Not a contracted notary "signing agent."

I'm not excited about it at all. Just won't sign it or notarize it. If other choose to that's fine with me.

I think some notaries have taken the singing agent title way too far. They're willing to sign or stamp anything they're asked to without question.

Reply by Barb25 on 12/30/11 12:35pm
Msg #407916

The bottom line

I was told they could not close loan without this. Obviously all purpose acknowledgement in lieu of this suffices. Beats me. I was told on phone however by a lender team when I said I called in front of borrower and was told that I did not have to sign and was not for me that "they would never tell me that"... In essence, I lied. I told them to call borrower.... They did not. I did. Shame on me. What did that prove. Nothing. Just that I can be as unprofessional as anyone else I guess. I just lost it. I guess I won't be working for them again. 12 years down the drain. Perfect I am not. A liar I am not. Good thing business is so great

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 12/30/11 1:11pm
Msg #407919

"Obviously all purpose acknowledgement in lieu of this

suffixes"

This is bordering on UPL. When they are asking for a paraph, an acknowledgment is not an acceptable substitute. The certificate provided is not asking you to notarize a signature - it is asking you to certify that a certain note goes with a certain mortgage.

Reply by Barb25 on 12/30/11 2:47pm
Msg #407921

Re: "Obviously all purpose acknowledgement in lieu of this

I totally agree. That was the title company response.... My sarcasm...added. Like Kenny Rogers says "you have to know when to fold em" I am only sorry I lost my cool.

Reply by Donna McDaniel on 12/30/11 7:23pm
Msg #407934

Re: "Obviously all purpose acknowledgement in lieu of this

Barb, I usually find a nice piece of dark chocolate works wonders in these situations. But, you are right, business is good and only getting better!!

Reply by CinOH on 12/30/11 7:32pm
Msg #407936

Re: The bottom line

The note that you described did NOT ask for an acknowledgement from the borrowers.
It asked you, as a notary, to certify that the note secures the DOT on the property.

You can't substitute one act for another of your own choosing.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/30/11 7:30pm
Msg #407935

It's one of the gray areas. The tc's do expect the notary

doing the signing to complete it. I do, based on the fact that I'm witnessing the signing of the Note & DOT at the same time. At least that's my reasoning. I can't see anything that would come back on you later.

Reply by CinOH on 12/30/11 7:40pm
Msg #407939

Re: It's one of the gray areas. The tc's do expect the notary

Hmm...well this particular title company is the only one that has ever asked me to complete that.

All the others mark that wording off "for internal use" or mark it with "lenders representative" or something like that.

A title rep told me she could see why a notary would not want to sign that and was surprised it was not marked for an internal signature. She said they'd sign it.

It is a gray area. Everyone has to handle it to their own comfort level.