Posted by Arcelia on 12/29/11 12:14pm
Msg #407796

Notary Forgery

Here's one for you. How about I discovered a Notary either forged my signature or had it forged on a Financial Affidavit for my refinance and then notarized it. I'm trying to figure out now how to approach this one. Think I should press charges?

Reply by Smitty/MI on 12/29/11 12:22pm
Msg #407797

ABSOLUTELY!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/29/11 12:23pm
Msg #407798

Were you harmed by having someone else sign your name on this document? I know little about forgery laws, but it seems to me that if no harm was done, than you wouldn't just file charges saying someone signed your name. Well, maybe you can, but more likely you'd be filing suit to get compensation or redress for the harm done as a result of your name being wrongly affixed to a document that somehow got you in financial/personal/professional trouble down the road.

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 12:27pm
Msg #407800

Yes, I was harmed. Feel totally violated. The document should have never been notarized as we are clearly advised "It is unlawful to notarize a forged signature" and..... they not only possibly forged it or at least had it forged, but certainly they notarized it knowingly I was not the signer nor present at the time. Not justifiable AT ALL.

Reply by John Tennant on 12/29/11 12:35pm
Msg #407801

Forgery is a felony. If it were me, I would ask for criminal charges from the District Attorney and certainly would contact the SOS with a complaint. JMHO

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/29/11 12:38pm
Msg #407802

Well, then, if this were me, I'd start with the SOS, report the violation and go from there. Possibly (hopefully) they'd revoke the notary's commission and pursue legal action against the notary derpending on the state's notary codes ... if it was proved that wasn't your signature. There could be a fine and jail time involved.

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 12:42pm
Msg #407804

I'm starting with an Attorney "first". I've already spoken with the SOS to make sure this individual is still commissioned and in the area. It is clearly obvious "without expertise" that it is not my signature. I'm sure they will be de-commissioned and other penalties will possibly apply according to the state codes for a felony crime.

Reply by Smitty/MI on 12/29/11 12:40pm
Msg #407803

Forgery/fraud is a violation of the law. Monetary compensation is the least of her concern, what else has the person done or been an accomplice to regarding her identity. I say prosecute the criminal.

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 12:43pm
Msg #407805

Exactly...

Reply by Mike Goodey on 12/29/11 12:52pm
Msg #407807

I agree totally...but let me ask...How were you harmed? If something was purchased on your behalf and you didn't authorize it, most certainly you have been harmed. Certainly if someone notarized your "signature" then they should be charged, but again, how were you harmed in this transaction? You didn't state that.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/30/11 7:17am
Msg #407868

Mike, she stated it her sig was forged on a fin aff for her

refinance....

...the forger could potentially screw up her credit rating if they decide NOT to pay on the loan, or apply for other credit elsewhere...

...she must be proactive and get this nipped in the bud before it gets lost on someone's desk in the AG office, take that forger out!

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/29/11 12:50pm
Msg #407806

In this day and age of rampant identity theft and related crimes, no prosecuting authority is going to waste time prosecuting a forger unless substational amounts of money or property loss are involved. As in: Was this forgery used to defraud Arcelia? Although true forgery is a crime (identity theft in a way) not every crime is actionable or subject to prosecution esp. if no harm has been done. Of course, this is all up to the prosecutors of her area - who would probably take their cue from the SOS office after the SOS had investigated... Again, it appears that unless Arcelia can show that this forgery caused her harm in some way, the most that would likely come out of this is a fine and possible jail time for the notary.

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/29/11 1:00pm
Msg #407810

GG, I hope you are wrong...but....

I can't say that I'd bet more than $1 against you.

Reply by HisHughness on 12/29/11 12:53pm
Msg #407808

This is a crime. Do not start with the Secretary of State. Do not consult with a private attorney first. Go to your district attorney. It his responsibility to prosecute crimes. Then report it to the Secretary of State, in writing and with full particulars, with a request that the SOS pull her commission.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 12/29/11 1:56pm
Msg #407819

We all know it's a crime, HisHughness. Whether anybody will care enuff to do anything about it is another story. In CA, certain counties have announced they will not even prosecute shoplifting and similar crimes. With limited resources, they don't care about the small fish. They don't even go after bad check writers any more - unless the check was for a zillion dollars. Seems unlikely they'd investigate a notary who signed someone's name to a document ... unless that someone suffered some major harm as a result. But you never know...

Still, you're right. It certainly should be reported to the DA (just to get it on the record if for no other reason) and especially to the SOS to get the notary's commission revoked. Get this person outta business. In CA, there are penalties already assigned to this sort of conduct so the notary could get in even bigger trouble.

And yes, like Copperhead, I'd like to know how this all transpired.

Reply by Buddy Young on 12/29/11 7:30pm
Msg #407836

It doesn't matter whether you were injured or not, you want this person stopped now.

If you wern't injured this time, you may be injured beyond recovery in the future.

Go to the district attorney and give the evidence.

If this person isn't stopped and injures you in the future, you have a case against the district attorney for not prosecuting.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/30/11 7:12am
Msg #407867

agree with Hugh here, that's exactly what I'd do... n/m

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/29/11 1:03pm
Msg #407811

How do you know it was the notary who forged your signature?

Perhaps someone else impersonated you in front of the notary?

Reply by jba/fl on 12/29/11 1:54pm
Msg #407818

Re: How do you know it was the notary who forged your signature?

On the Financial Affadavit on my refinance?

Sounds like this was missed at the signing and someone decided to sign for you. Was it the same notary as the rest of the package?

Reply by TacomaBoy on 12/29/11 2:11pm
Msg #407822

Simple Misunderstanding?

Sometimes when you sign refinance doc's there will be a Correction Affidavit with a Power of Attorney. The document clearly stipulates that the POA portion may only be used to correct simple clerical errors, using your initials or signature. However, this person stepped way over the line notarizing her own forgery, whether through ignorance or by intent. At the very least she should be stripped of her notary commission and possibly prosecuted. It would be interesting to find out if the hiring company is aware of this notary's practices and/or if the company condones such activities.

Reply by jba/fl on 12/29/11 2:18pm
Msg #407823

But - Was it the same notary as the rest of the package?

If not, then POA may have been brought into play. Or TC did some behind the scenes magic.

We really don't have enough information.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 12/30/11 7:19am
Msg #407869

I'd like to know WHO the NSA was that handled the closing? n/m

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 8:13pm
Msg #407845

Re: How do you know it was the notary who forged your signature?

That's exactly right! I was not a notary at the time, but being one now... I know that the doc was missed and it was probably requested of this notary to come out to me for the signing of it. We know how sensitive that document is and "NO ONE" will close without it. And no, it was not the same notary at the signing and it was actually two months later.

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 8:08pm
Msg #407844

Re: How do you know it was the notary who forged your signature?

I don't know that it was the notary that forged the signature. But what I do know is that the notary knows who forged it, or at best they know that I was not sitting there when they notarized the signature. Now we all as notaries certainly know that we don't notarize without the individual being present; and the document states clearly "It is against the law to notarize a forged signature" right under the notary's signature and seal. So go figure!

Reply by jba/fl on 12/29/11 10:52pm
Msg #407858

Were you the sole signer? Any other owner signing?

Still not enough info, but, let me try this.

IF there were two of you singing, and title affidavits would be signed by both parties, the notary did not check effectively at the table and missed your signature and then returned the package. The temp. POA was brought out as they could not find the original notary, or the original notary would not go back and backdate, or ???, and a TC person signed your name on the original affidavit that was already notarized. But, I think that you said there were two notaries involved.

This is like pulling teeth to get the whole story in a cohesive, coherent fashion. I feel we are left with parts of the puzzle missing still.

Reply by Arcelia on 1/2/12 12:14pm
Msg #408031

Re: Were you the sole signer? Any other owner signing?

I am the sole signer. Your scenario is correct. No one ever contacted me stating that we missed a document in February. I'm thinking the second/temp notary and/or the TC didn't want to take the time to contact me and get it done so they did what they did to work it out on that date which was 2 months after the signing in April. First notary is not involved anymore after the initial signing.

Reply by CinOH on 12/29/11 3:38pm
Msg #407825

Absolutely.

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 12/29/11 7:58pm
Msg #407841

Wether there is cause for the DA to prosecute or not that remains to be seen. The Notary possibly broke some Notary laws and should be brought to the attention of the SOS regardless. It doesnt matter if there were damages or not..What other things has this notary done? I f we have proof another notary is doing illegal things wouldnt you want their commission revoked before damage is done? Loosing a commission is fair punishment!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 12/29/11 5:09pm
Msg #407830

Start with SOS and continue from there. n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 12/29/11 7:44pm
Msg #407839

Maybe someone stole the notary's stamp!

I guess you better find out if the notary kept a journal...MAYBE someone had access to the notary's stamp or had one made and actually committed fraud against the notary....two sides to the story you know.

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 8:16pm
Msg #407846

Re: Maybe someone stole the notary's stamp!

Whatever! That doesn't even make sense! Whatever the story is, the notary is even liable for not keeping the stamp secured....

Reply by Smitty/MI on 12/29/11 8:49pm
Msg #407850

Re: Maybe someone stole the notary's stamp!

I don't believe some of the comments I have read. As stated earlier this is a felony, who in their right mind would even conceive letting this go with leniency. I would want the criminal prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law whatever it may be, a fine, jail time, etc.. Notaries are meant to prevent this type of action, just because she is a notary does not give her or any of us a pass to brake the law. Don't think that she had your best interest at heart. She knew she was braking the law when she did it...so what's to stop her from continuing, at your expense. You may not be her only victim. Yes, I said victim, I would feel victimized if someone did this to me as well, what else has she done would come to mind.

Reply by MW/VA on 12/29/11 8:04pm
Msg #407843

Was it a crime--sure--forgery. I'd call the lender or tc first. Do you want your refi overturned because you didn't sign one of the docs? You may stand more to lose than gain on this one, but the notary should be reported at the very least. There are too many imcompetents in this profession. I do think we need to report those that abuse the office of notary.

Reply by Arcelia on 12/29/11 8:26pm
Msg #407847

Over turning the refi is probably not an option. I have refied and modified a couple of times since then. My issue is that I was violated by this criminal act knowingly and as aforementioned, what else has this notary done with my signature or anybody else's. Also the figures on the affidavit are not correct. I believe there is probable interest issues that i have paid out more of as a result of this, and while being compensated was not my initial concern, I could probably recoop some of that back. I just want the notary stopped from doing this to me or anybody else again. They just renewed their commission

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/29/11 8:39pm
Msg #407848

Re: Notary Forgery...if you've "refi'd and modified a couple

times since then"

How in the world did you ever find out about this? Whatever made you investigate a loan you took out 3 or 4 loans ago?

And if you've managed to refi a couple times since, I'd say you incurred NO damages at all - you were not harmed in any way - was it right? no, absolutely not. But you have no cause of action for damages for yourself....you obviously have incurred no harm at all because of it.

JMO

Reply by linda/ca on 12/29/11 10:31pm
Msg #407856

Re: Notary Forgery...if you've "refi'd and modified a couple

Was this for attention or entertainment purposes?

12:14 pm "I'm trying to figure out now how to approach this one."

12:29 pm "I'm starting with an attorney "first," I've already spoken with the secretary of state."

I saw this right away, I was wondering when someone was going to catch on.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 12/30/11 1:33am
Msg #407861

Re: Notary Forgery...if you've "refi'd and modified a couple

I think both Lindas make good points. After reading all the responses to date, I have more questions than answers. I agree with all of those who said that we need more information.

While this notary may in fact be guilty of a crime, it concerns me how quickly most people are willing to jump on the bandwagon of prosecution without really knowing the whole story. As imperfect as it is, I'm glad we have a justice system in this country that usually attempts to investigate all the facts before accusing someone...

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/30/11 7:53am
Msg #407871

Re: Notary Forgery...if you've "refi'd and modified a couple

Yep, I agree, Janet. There are too many details missing to suggest what should be done.

Reply by Arcelia on 1/2/12 12:09pm
Msg #408030

Re: Notary Forgery...if you've "refi'd and modified a couple

FYI, I spoke with the SOS just to get the information on the notary. (i.e., still in commission, phone #s; address, etc) I did not speak on this issue at all to the SOS. So now you can "see" this since you are looking for whatever you are looking for. Not for attention nor entertainment. I could care less about either. I genuinely wanted to hear what some intelligent notaries had to say about the situation. I'm going to do what I'm going to do and I have not shared that information in this forum. Just so you know.....

Reply by Arcelia on 1/2/12 12:19pm
Msg #408033

Re: Notary Forgery...if you've "refi'd and modified a couple

I didn't refi a a couple of times, I modified. The Loan company transferred the loan last month and I reviewed what was transferred to the new loan company and ran across this. I didn't say I did or didn't incur any harm or damages.

Reply by Susan Hatter on 12/29/11 10:05pm
Msg #407853

Since the two notaries were not the same (if I understand you correctly), and the document in question was two months after the fact; my thought process would be, without any more information, that it is entirely possible that the title company or lender thought they were good under the correction power of attorney (whether or not we all believe it might be a big stretch). The second notary is obviously the one in question. Could you start with a question of the title company closer to answer the simple question of whether or not the power of attorney was being relied upon before reporting a notary to the SOS?? The lender could have as easily used their correction power of attorney to satisfy an investor thinking they were within the scope of the document. Maybe enough information is not available yet to involve a district attorney??

Reply by Arcelia on 1/2/12 12:26pm
Msg #408034

Correction power of attorney DOES NOT give anyone the right to sign/forge another person's signature. The particular form also clearly states to the notary "It is "ILLEGAL" to notarize a forged signature. If that is what there thought was, THEY THOUGHT WRONG!!!! They had no power there.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 12/30/11 5:50am
Msg #407865

Leaves me with one burning question

How did you end up with a copy of this Affidavit?

It's not typical for a borrower to get copies of their signed loan documents - perhaps you simply asked for it - but you say this Affidavit was done 2 mos after closing.

Just puzzles me.

Reply by Eve/VA on 12/30/11 8:00am
Msg #407874

Re: Leaves me with one burning question

The BO(s) get a fully executed copy of the loan docs don't they?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 12/30/11 8:03am
Msg #407875

Do they Eve? Do you give your borrowers a fully

executed copy? Or don't you just print off an extra set and give it to them.

For my borrowers, the only thing they get that's signed is the RTC - their two copies each are signed and dated. Otherwise, the rest of the package is blank.

Reply by Eve/VA on 12/30/11 8:14am
Msg #407877

Yes, the BO's receive a final executed copy of the docs

I give a copy of the package to BO when I go to the signing, of course.

When the loan is finalized and all docs are signed by the lending instit, TC, etc., then the BO receives a fully executed version. My packages usually contain a form for the BO to complete to indicate how he wants to receive this final copy, i.e. pdf, USPS CD Rom, etc.

Reply by Eve/VA on 12/30/11 8:16am
Msg #407878

I should add ...

that at least this has been my experience. : )

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/30/11 10:34am
Msg #407899

Re: Yes, the BO's receive a final executed copy of the docs

Eve, I do NFCU loans for two title companies - they are the only ones I am aware of that give a pdf copy of executed and notarized loan dos to the borrowers. It's definitely not the norm. Maybe it's something that NFCU requires?

Reply by CopperheadVA on 12/30/11 10:35am
Msg #407900

*docs* not *dos* n/m

Reply by Eve/VA on 1/3/12 7:54am
Msg #408085

Maybe n/m

Reply by Arcelia on 1/2/12 12:32pm
Msg #408036

Re: Leaves me with one burning question

Yes, mostly upon request.

Reply by HisHughness on 1/2/12 1:56pm
Msg #408044

Congratulations, Arcelia, you are the new record-holder

Fourteen -- count 'em, <14> -- posts in one thread. Furthermore, you are awarded the OMG! Cluster because they were in a thread you started. You may want to check out the website
getalife.com.

Reply by Eve/VA on 1/3/12 7:56am
Msg #408086

? n/m

Reply by Arcelia on 1/2/12 12:31pm
Msg #408035

Re: Leaves me with one burning question

You are obviously not paying attention, or didn't read enough. While I was the borrower in this instance and not even a notary at the time, I requested a copy of my signed documents. The initial package (then) didn't even have this affidavit in it. I later, as of this date, once the mortgage company transferred my loan to another company, the new company posted the documents in my file/account online. I reviewed/printed what was transferred to them and discovered this.

Reply by Julie/MI on 12/30/11 8:00am
Msg #407873

Troll?

Never saw this name on the forum, but I don't read on a regular basis.

Me thinks someone is having some fun

Reply by Eve/VA on 12/30/11 8:44am
Msg #407882

Maybe n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 12/30/11 9:32am
Msg #407892

Re: Troll? - I think she posted back in 2007 right after she

had refi'd her house.

Msg #205456

Reply by mwm143 on 1/3/12 11:17am
Msg #408101

HOW did you come to learn about this? Did you request

a copy of the fully executed loan package several months later?