Posted by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 2/7/11 3:29pm
Msg #371822

Feedback - Signing issues on Reverse Mortgages

I would appreciate any issues that you have encountered doing reversere mortgage signings.
I am trying to put together a primer to let lenders know what they should be aware BEFORE they set up appt and send wrong docs.

My biggie is expired ID or NO ID.
What's yours (this is not a bashing session, just trying to see if we can get lenders to be more mindful) email me ([e-mail address]) or PM
TIA

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/7/11 4:00pm
Msg #371824

1. ID that does not match the way the documents are drawn, i.e. wife's given middle name on the docs but her ID shows her maiden name instead (Mary Jane Jones vs. Mary Smith Jones).

2. Borrowers who have physical issues that are not disclosed, i.e. blindness or severe arthritis, both of which lengthen the time it takes for the appointment. These need to be disclosed at the time the appointment is booked so adequate time can be scheduled.

Reply by mwm143 on 2/7/11 4:09pm
Msg #371826

Are you proposing that the loan officer ask if a borrower has a handicap that may lenghten the time of the closing? Do you expect that with all your closings or just those that are with people over 62? I'm sure there are at least a dozen laws against such.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 2/7/11 4:26pm
Msg #371834

WE are not talking discrimination, just information to help the notary. If loan officer is aware of such extinuating circumstances, it will make the process much better if all parties involved know up front instead of the "SURPRISE" when you walk in the door.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 2/7/11 7:54pm
Msg #371850

It's about accommodating the borrower, not discriminating against them.

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 2/7/11 4:18pm
Msg #371829

Thank you - those are awesome responses.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/7/11 4:18pm
Msg #371827

Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

a few PenAgain pens: http://www.penagain.com/ It started when one gal tried TAPING a pen to her poor, knotted fingers - she was so miserable. Once I got home, I searched and found Penagains - and ordered on the spot. Things are a lot smoother since then, less painful for signers, and I'm a hero. I brought one to my "taped-pen-to-fingers lady, and she was so happy.

(They also work keeping little ones interested in something other than what's in front of Mommy - they look like rocket ships.)

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 2/7/11 4:20pm
Msg #371831

Re: Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

What a wonderful Idea. THANKS

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/7/11 4:57pm
Msg #371837

Re: Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

I did a reverse couple weeks ago (not with you Gina) and there were140 pages. When that man saw my stack he about had the big one. It was just too big of a pkg. Can't they do something to consolidate some of the docs? It took a long time (almost 2 hours) to get through it with him. He was slow and of course wanted to chat and layed his pen down each time he signed. I tried to keep it moving best I could giving him time. These lenders just don't realize how hard it is for some to sign all this.

Reply by HisHughness on 2/7/11 5:06pm
Msg #371839

Re: Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

One of the reasons I frequent NotRot is to pick up gems like this.

I had no idea there was such an instrument as a PenAgain. It's a fabulous idea, and I'm off to OffDep to pick up a couple. Too bad the same idea can't be extended to other areas for us OldePhartz; you know, like maybe NoHairyEarsAgain. Or RealTeethAgain.

Reply by LeeH/IN on 2/7/11 11:30pm
Msg #371867

Re: Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

Two years ago I found the PenAgain pens on a special display in Staples for $5.00. I'm glad I bought a couple because they've been handy at signings. One gentleman with a missing thumb and half missing forefinger was tickled pink that he was able to write with this new fangled pen. Some people don't want to be bothered with it because it looks so strange. But at $20 a crack as seen on the web site you gave, I don't think I could be giving them away at signings. I've been looking for them at Staples but haven't seen them since my original purchase. A year ago I bought one from a catalogue as a Christmas gift for my brother-in-law. It was a solid shiny metal, very attractive, but I like the PenAgains better because they are light as a feather.

Reply by MarieG/CA on 2/8/11 12:05pm
Msg #371905

Re: Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

This is a great idea.

Thanks Susan!

I'll be stealing this one as well

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 2/9/11 11:48am
Msg #372014

Re: Just an FYI, Gina, for my elderly signers, I carry

Awesome idea Susie!

I found them at my local Office Depot for $4.29. The package I found came with black ink and 2 refills. since most signings require blue ink I looked for blue refills. On the back of the package they have a list of refills that fit. I found an assorted pack of refills from Foray (an Office Depot brand) Item # 588-300 that contained a blue refill ($3.19).

A store employee gave me a great tip for keeping the refills fresh (since I now have 5 refills of various colors). She said to put the refills I'm not using in a plastic zip-lock bag and place them in the bottom drawer of my refrigerator. The cold keeps them "fresh" longer.

This makes sense to me since I used to keep camera film in a refrigerator for the same reason. I would think that placing printer ink in the refrigerator should also help to keep them fresh as well if you buy in bulk. Wish I had thought about that before I got to the end of my last boxed order of ink. Had to toss 3 cartridges because the ink had evaporated while sitting on my shelf.

Thanks again Susie!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/9/11 1:11pm
Msg #372033

Good sleuthing, and great tip on refills. The fridge. Of

course!

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/7/11 6:27pm
Msg #371843

Expired or unacceptable form of ID...(i.e., Medicare Card).

Name/s shown on Mortgage vs ID. (Seems to be some creative thinking going on some days. Had one where the man's name really was John Junior Smith and they turned it around to John Smith, Jr. And, yes, he did show me his original Deed that said John Junior Smith and told me that was a problem his whole life and he had TOLD them Junior was his middle name numerous times.)

Seniors complain about the small print size on some documents.
But, MOSTLY, are overwhelmed by the number of documents.

Reply by Linda Spanski on 2/7/11 7:34pm
Msg #371847

At my most recent reverse signing there were about 150 pages including 2 trust certs, 2 ID affs, proof of insurance for Title and a statement of info. The borrower asked why there was so much duplication of effort.

This was an adjustable reverse, a first for me, and if the LO hadn't arrived to help answer questions I would not have known how to explain the loan vs. escrow amount, the appraised value amount as it related to the loan & escrow amounts, and how to account for the money not included in the escrow.

Another issue is borrower confusion. I remember an RM I did for you, Gina, where the borrower's son called me after his dad's death and said he planned to sue everyone involved in the RM because his dad's dementia was pretty far advanced and apparently I'd seen him on a "good" day. I chat with borrowers (a lot!) and he seemed sharp to me, but the son said his dad's caretaker and LO took him for everything he had. The son realized I'd done all I could to make sure the old gent knew what he was doing.

I've had the no-proper-ID issues and the arthritic hand situation, too -thanks, Susan for the pen suggestion.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/7/11 8:33pm
Msg #371857

My pleasure, Linda. So glad to see them now in stores. n/m

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 2/7/11 7:43pm
Msg #371848

It's been a while since I did an RM, but the docs for the last one I did were really printed poorly. They looked like copies of a fax of a fax. They were readable but not as good as I have seen other loan docs. For elderly folks clear & crisply printed documents would be a very big plus.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/7/11 8:39pm
Msg #371858

Too many repeated docs, especially reruns done

during the app process.

Stop with the 10 different ID affs. Stop stop stop.

Send the "booklet" of FAQs, etc under seperate cover - in large print format, and not grey on grey the the backs of CC bills.

My very short list.

Reply by Jayhawk/KS on 2/7/11 9:18pm
Msg #371859

Placecards for the date, you don't have to keep repeating it

One thing I usually do especially with the reverse mortgages that really helps is write down the date. I used to use a sticky. But, I came up with a better idea. I was at a wedding, and there were place cards. BINGO- I thought. I went out and bought some plain place cards. I keep them in my briefcase. If I see that someone has difficulty remembering the date, I write it out with a large sharpie and put it in front of them. Then they just look up and see the date. You can reuse them, turn them around, and inside out. So, for the price, you get 4 uses out of one card. It sure saves time and repeating yourself.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/7/11 10:29pm
Msg #371865

The date, and, especially in Trust transactions, the

"rules:" And POAs, Initialing, Middle Name.

So simple, so effective. Great gem, Jayhawk.

Reply by Cari on 2/8/11 4:31am
Msg #371872

How about getting written instructions from the lender or tc, about how the documents are going to be sent to the NSA, either edocs, overnight docs, or downloaded from an intranet or client server?

It appears this is a running trend with lenders and/or TCs...failure to properly communicate with the SS hired, which can then cause a serious issue with the SS and the NSA, especially if there are any 'fee' adjustments to be made.

Reply by RJE/MI on 2/8/11 5:57am
Msg #371877

Wonderful post with such great ideas! Thank You. n/m

Reply by Ocean Pacific Notary Services, Inc. on 2/8/11 9:45am
Msg #371890

Thank you all for your feedback, I have incorporated many ideas to present and personally so good ideas I can use for local RM signings (once in awhile I actually get one).

Reply by MistarellaFL on 2/8/11 10:31am
Msg #371893

In my world, for a better RM closing:

1. Size of print would be larger

2. None to less initialing of pages

3. Better instructions on how to access funds (for lines of credit HECMs)

4. Better loan officer availability for questions during the signing appointment

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/8/11 11:07am
Msg #371898

I'm seeing a breakdown in counseling...where once people used to know more about these loans than I did, it seems now people are less informed..

I had an app the other day - this was the lady's second go-round in the reverse mortgage application AND counseling - she had so many questions that, to me, she should have known the answer to -

IMO the counseling should be face to face with these people...not just on the phone or over the internet.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 2/8/11 2:42pm
Msg #371912

I haven't done many RM's and I usually turn them down because I just don't like doing them. I have found the counseling (on the RM closings I've done) to be a joke and fairly non-effective. That's one reason I don't like doing them.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/8/11 8:14pm
Msg #371984

I think sometimes there are issues with short-term memory, which is a very tough thing to deal with - and a very gray area for us. The person may still be fully competent, but just doesn't absorb new information very well and one session with the counselor just isn't enough for them to take it all in. Then add a lapse in time from when the session was held to when they finally sign the documents and you have more difficulty with recollection about how it all works.

(Reminds me of notary training for some... )

Reply by Brooke Squyres on 2/8/11 11:44am
Msg #371902

Just found out B of A will no longer do RM's

this is their last week to take applications. It's too bad, I did quite a bit of work for them
As for RM issues, I would agree with the ID problem; I also carry pens with extra big/soft grips, and like to stay in touch with the LO as far as extenuating circumstances, whether I need to allow extra time, etc.

Reply by Brooke Squyres on 2/8/11 12:05pm
Msg #371906

Just found out B of A will no longer do RM's

this is their last week to take applications. It's too bad, I did quite a bit of work for them
As for RM issues, I would agree with the ID problem; I also carry pens with extra big/soft grips, and like to stay in touch with the LO as far as extenuating circumstances, whether I need to allow extra time, etc.