Posted by Carlos/CA on 2/11/11 6:53pm
Msg #372434

Help!

Got this email and was wondering if I can get help in how to proceed since the property is out of the country.

"Subject: home sale
Hello,
I have a home that is closing for sale in Vancouver, BC Canada. I am working with a notary public there who will be processing my paperwork however she needs a notary here that can witness my husband and I's signatures. Can you please tell me the cost you woud charge? My home is closing it's sale today and possession is to be March 1 so the paperwork needs to be handled within the next two weeks.

Thank-you for your prompt reply"

I know what to charge. I only need advice on the out of the country portion.???? Thanks.

Reply by Mia on 2/11/11 7:14pm
Msg #372436

First thing I will say, is this email may be a con. Why don't these people just hop a flight to Vancouver and be done with it? But.....
If the notarized document is going out of the USA, a "chain" authentication process may be necessary.
Additional certificates of authority may have to be obtained from the US Dept. of State in Washington, D.C., a foreign consulate in Washington, DC, and a ministry of foreign affairs in the paticular foreign nation.
An "Apostille"?? *It is the responsibility of the party (the signers) to get the apostille.

Reply by Carlos/CA on 2/11/11 7:20pm
Msg #372439

Thanks Mia. Will not take assignment.

Reply by OR on 2/11/11 7:52pm
Msg #372443

I would ask that they fed ex or pay pal my fee and go from there. Why turn down something that could be $$ and easy. You have untill March 1st.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/11/11 8:00pm
Msg #372444

I sounds to me like a regular notarization and opp to learn

If I am not mistaken, Canadian notaries have a great deal more authority than we do. I believe they can prepare legal documents and facilitate real estate closings.

All the writer needs is someone who will notarize documents locally. Then, they will probably need an apostille since it is going out of the country, as Mia mentioned. After the documents are authenticated with an apostille, they will ship the documents to Canada to the other notary for processing.

It may be a great opportunity to learn something new about the apostille process. In my opinion, notaries should be able to explain the apostille process to the public and, at minimum, point them in the right direction. It is true that it is not the notary's responsibility to handle the apostille, but knowledge is power.

Reply by OR on 2/11/11 8:18pm
Msg #372447

Re: I sounds to me like a regular notarization and opp to learn

It does sound like a learning curve. I guess I did not understand how much was invalved. I would take the chance to learn.

Reply by PAW on 2/11/11 8:22pm
Msg #372448

Re: I sounds to me like a regular notarization and opp to learn

I agree, this sounds more like just a notarization assignment. The added twist is what the Canadian client/notary needs.

Since Canada is not a signatory or party to the Hague Convention of 5 October 1961 Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents, as Mia pointed out, a 'chain of authentication' may be in order. That chain, if done strictly by mail, can take upwards of 6 weeks, most of the time sitting in the US Department of State. However, full authentication and legalization may not be required. I'm sure the Canadian notary knows what needs to be done.

But, from a US notary's perspective, only the acknowledgment of the signers is probably all that is required or being requested.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/11/11 9:14pm
Msg #372455

LOL...I learned something!

*Since Canada is not a signatory or party to the Hague Convention of 5 October 1961 Abolishing the Requirement of Legalisation for Foreign Public Documents, as Mia pointed out, a 'chain of authentication' may be in order.*

When I was typing my response in this thread, I briefly thought, "'I'm probably talking out of my rear here, I should check the Hague convention countries..." but, as you see, good sense did not prevail.

I've learned now about Canada...and about a chain of authentication concept that I did not consider before.

Sign me,
Brenda, who is always ready to learn, but also quick to talk out of her rear.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 2/11/11 8:30pm
Msg #372450

I recently notarized some documents for a woman who was selling her home in Vancouver B.C. while she was in the US. She had a barrister handling the sale & I spoke to him about Canada requirements, & the only things unusual were that the California notary certificates (all jurats) had to be on the same page( ie no loose certificates attached but they could be on the reverse side of the document, which is where I put stamped the notary certificate & my seal) & the Canadian 'notary certificate' didn't require a stamp, just my name, signature & address. There were no apostiles inquired about by either the barrister or the client ; I assumed none were required for the Canadian authorities.

You might want to speak with the notary in Canada about the requirements; I was impressed with how easy it was. Also, I asked the client to email me the documents before the appointment so I knew what to expect.

Reply by MrEd_Ca on 2/11/11 8:58pm
Msg #372451

Also ...

... the talk with the barrister about Canadian requirements & my California requirements was key to me taking the assignment as was viewing the documents the client had beforehand. I wouldn't have accepted the job without both & the conversation with the barrister was a very positive learning experience. I also documented the conversation in my journal.

Reply by BrendaTx on 2/11/11 9:16pm
Msg #372456

And, I've learned more...thanks, Mr. Ed.

Good info!

I love this board!

Reply by OR on 2/11/11 11:12pm
Msg #372469

Re: And, I've learned more...thanks, Mr. Ed.

I just tried to post a copy of an aspostille but I could't do it. That is ok. I love Wikipedia. That is an odd looking form. I love learning something useful today. TKS everyone.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/12/11 10:36am
Msg #372496

"...& the Canadian 'notary certificate' didn't require a stamp, just my name, signature & address..."

But any California notary certificate *does* require a stamp and you were here. So I hope you followed CA law when completing the notarization.

I haven't had any experience with Canada, nor have I checked it out, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some type of agreement between the US and Canada for this type of thing. I'll bet there's a great deal of commerce crossing that border! [Too bad Laura V doesn't come here anymore. She probably has a wealth of info on the subject. Anyone hear from her lately?]

Reply by James Dawson on 2/12/11 11:04am
Msg #372501

It should be O.K. Because..

..per the California S.O.S. Website.....

The California Secretary of State authenticates signatures only on documents issued in the State of California signed by a notary public or the following public officials and their deputies:

Since the property is in Canada, no apostille is needed.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/11 11:09am
Msg #372505

Re: It should be O.K. Because..I disagree James

"The California Secretary of State authenticates signatures only on documents issued in the State of California signed by a notary public "

They're authenticating the signature of the CA notary - has nothing to do with the property location but has everything to do with WHERE the document is going. Though they may not be party to the Hague Convention, if the Canadian requestor requires authentication of the notary's signature, then it needs to be done.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/12/11 11:18am
Msg #372508

Re: It should be O.K. Because..I disagree James

It says...The country of destination determines whether the authentication is an Apostille or Certification.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/11 11:22am
Msg #372510

That's right....the country of destination

but you said "Since the property is in Canada, no apostille is needed"

It's the country of destination (where the *document* is going) that determines what is needed....not the location of the property.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/12/11 11:51am
Msg #372515

Re: That's right....the country of destination

Okay,...this is what I'm referring to in the OP

>> I have a home that is closing for sale in Vancouver, BC Canada. I am working with a notary public there who will be processing my paperwork however she needs a notary here that can witness my husband and I's signatures. <<<<<

The "Property" (Docs) are in Canada......the husband and wife are in California. They are working with a notary in Canada. They (sellers) want someone to verify/witness their ( husband and wife's signature) so the Notary in Canada can process the Docs (in Canada). It's says nothing about signing documents in California.

Am I confused about this??

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/11 12:08pm
Msg #372521

Re: That's right....the country of destination

OP said "I am working with a notary public there who will be processing my paperwork however she needs a notary here that can witness my husband and I's signatures."

Property in Canada - docs signed here **and witnessed and/or notarized here** - by CA notary...then sent to Canada for "processing" IOW completing the closing...

That's my take.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/12/11 1:07pm
Msg #372533

Re: That's right....the country of destination

If that's the case, then I'm confused,...I don't read anywhere where Carlos says the Docs are in California. Of course you and Paul are correct in the Docs are here......SO C A R L O S...What's up??

Oh yea guys, what if I'm correct in my assumption about the Docs, is what I said correct then?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/11 1:45pm
Msg #372538

James..I gotta tell ya...you have me totally befuddled

Maybe I'm really missing something here...but

"I don't read anywhere where Carlos says the Docs are in California. Of course you and Paul are correct in the Docs are here"

Why would the homeowners be contacting a CA notary if the docs aren't in CA?

My take - docs in Canada - property in Canada - property owners in CA - need to sign docs in CA and forward to Canadian notary to consummate the deal....they're lining up a CA notary to do the deed...

Now it's MY turn...what am *I* missing??

Reply by James Dawson on 2/12/11 1:56pm
Msg #372541

Re: James..I gotta tell ya...you have me totally befuddled

Well we both would stop scratchin our heads if they had just gotten a POA and let somebody up there take care of that business. LOL

O.K. Docs in Canada - property in Canada - property owners (visiting maybe ) in Ca. Documents ALREADY signed and signature must be verified by Canadian notary. Calif verifies signature, sends to Canadian notary, bingo. It is a way to circumvent the Apostille process since it takes up to six weeks going that route. Dah, happens all the time. It's part of that new Canadian law I mentioned (you know where) to prevent money laundering. hehe

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/12/11 2:07pm
Msg #372542

Okay..there's one little step that I, foolishly, "assumed"

and that was that the documents would be forwarded to the sellers in CA for signature before a CA notary..

Maybe that's where we're hung up here...

And...umm....where??....

Reply by linda/ca on 2/12/11 2:51pm
Msg #372551

Re: Okay..there's one little step that I, foolishly, "assumed"

It sounds rather simple to me, if I am reading the initial message by Carlos, it appears that the Canadian notary only want proof of the borrowers signatures (borrowers are in California) and not in front of the notary in Canada, therefore, she need Carlos to verify who they are through their signatures (using DL/Passport, etc.). The borrower made it clear that the Canadian Notary is completing the paperwork.

Reply by PAW on 2/12/11 12:28pm
Msg #372525

Confused ...

OP stated: "... she [the notary in Canada] needs a notary here [in California] that can witness my husband and I's signatures."

So, my understanding is that the documents are to be signed and notarized in California. Then sent to Canada where the closing will be executed.

The question then is whether or not the notary in Canada needs to have the documents "legalized" before they are accepted in Canada. Since Canada is not a party to the Hague Convention abolishing the requirement for document legalization, if the documents need to be "legalized", then the process must begin with the CA SOS issuing a "Certificate of Notarial Authority" (authenticates the notary's signature and authority), which is then submitted to the US Department of State for authentication of the CA SOS signature and authority, and then to the Canadian Consulate for legalization and acceptance for use in Canada.

Depending on what's required, how much, if any, of the legalization process is necessary.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/12/11 1:21pm
Msg #372535

Well Carlos will not be able to answer this til Mon n/m