Posted by Cheryl Meril on 2/27/11 12:32pm
Msg #374427

Lack of Capacity Means Lack of Fee?

I've never had this happen before, but if you go to a senior home and determine the person lacks capacity to sign, do you waive the notary signature fee?

Reply by Dennis_IN on 2/27/11 12:39pm
Msg #374429

In that situation I would not charge anything unless

there was significant travel involved.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 2/27/11 12:41pm
Msg #374430

That's your call Cheryl. No one can tell you what to do in situations like this. Use your best judgment. I too went to a nursing home one time in the next town. I could tell the family was not well off. When I determined the person was not capable, I just wished the family the best and left. I didn't even bring it up. Another time, I was called to someone's home. The man was in and out and the family decided they would just let it alone and not even try. The son handed me a $20 when walking out the door for my time. I did accept it. So, every situation is going to be different. I think from now on, when I get a call like this, I will bring it up on the phone that I need to be compensated for the mileage no matter what the outcome, which I usually charge $1 per mile. That covers my expenses.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/27/11 12:46pm
Msg #374431

I always negotiate a travel fee when doing general notary work, sometimes bridge tolls and parking too, sign or not.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/27/11 1:02pm
Msg #374432

IMO you can't charge a "notary signature fee"

if you didn't notarize anything (applicable to general notary work only) - however, as others have said, other service fees should be negotiated and agreed to up front so you're at least guaranteed compensation for your time and travel, no matter the outcome - that is if you are not willing to just "let it go"...

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/27/11 1:14pm
Msg #374435

Before i go to see a nursing home or hospice patient....

I always ask up front about capacity. This could prevent the situation you describe.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 2/27/11 3:15pm
Msg #374443

Re: Before i go to see a nursing home or hospice patient....

I also ask about capacity, like Shoshana, when it comes to hospitals and nursing homes. In general, I also ask all callers who are calling to arrange an appointment on behalf of someone else, which is very typical, about who will be signing, and if they understand and speak english, and if they are incapacitated in any way. Saves us all time and money.

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 2/27/11 3:19pm
Msg #374445

Also...

Check the ID situation and whether they need witnesses for what they are signing.

Reply by LKT/CA on 2/27/11 4:05pm
Msg #374450

You must ask a LOT of questions before going to a senior home (hospital, nursing home, assisted living facility, etc.) or you'll end up with the results you got.

You definitely should ask the person making the arrangements if the patient is awake and aware - meaning are they on heavy meds that would affect their awareness or ability to sign. Ask if the person is a stroke patient so you'll have an idea if they can sign and if you'll need to communicate on paper. Sometimes stroke patients lose their ability to speak but are still cognizant and communicate by nodding or writing. Sometimes they lose their ability to write or sign which means you may have to do the signature by mark.

If you have to do the signature by mark then the customer needs to arrange the two witnesses. Definitely ask about the ID and whether it is current. Ask the customer to call you back with the expiration and issue dates of the ID. Many times they'll just tell you that "Oh yes, they have current ID" then when you get to the appointment, the ID is expired and beyond the 5 year issue date or there's no ID at all. If you require the expiration and issue dates before the appointment, this forces them to find the ID, look at it and fess up if it's expired after all.

One way to GUARANTEE that you get paid for your time and travel and is inform the caller that for nursing home notarial service requests, you charge $XX for travel which is separate from the per signature fee, it is nonrefundable and you collect it UPFRONT and in CASH at the beginning of the appointment. If they balk, then refer them to another Notary.

And don't unpack your bag until you collect the travel fee - give them a receipt, then proceed with the appointment. Yes, I've done that - for certain situations I tell the caller on the phone that I require CASH and collect it UPFRONT and that if the service fee is not paid UPFRONT I will leave. Yes, I've said that last part, "If I'm not paid upfront, I will LEAVE". This happened to be for a midnight appointment. All went well, he paid in cash, I gave him a receipt then we proceeded with the notarizations.

Reply by Cheryl Meril on 2/27/11 8:55pm
Msg #374466

thanks for the info, appreciate your time.

Reply by Stoli on 2/27/11 5:19pm
Msg #374454

Marian provided additional information in Msg #373326

Msg #373326

CA Notaries that the SOS doesn't tell you
By Marian_in_CA on 2/18/11 4:51pm

If you're called to Notarize an Advance Healthcare Directive for somebody who is a patient in a skilled nursing center (not a hospital, but a SNF or Rehab place), you should remind them that they also need to have a Patient Advocate or Ombudsman there at the same time. It's a state law... it's called the "Special Witness Requirement" and if you've seen enough of these forms, you've likely seen this on the last page.

This morning I had a SNF call me for TWO of their residents who

Again, thank you, Marian.

Reply by Frank/NC on 2/27/11 6:27pm
Msg #374460

So many of these Nursing Home notarizations are heart wrenching so that if I don't have to travel more than a short distance, I just would rather not charge at all. I know we are all in business but sometimes I think I just have to feel better about myself and do it without charge.

Reply by Cheryl Meril on 2/27/11 8:59pm
Msg #374467

Thanks for all of your helpful info. What happened was she told me over the phone her mother most likely could not understand, but she wasn't sure. She also said she wouldn't be able to sign. I told her about the witnesses who would have to witness, etc., and she agreed for me to come and see what would happen.

The lady was pretty much incapacitated and couldn't sign her name. For some reason it never dawned on her daughter, who had a durable power of attorney, she could sign on her behalf. she presented me with the POA and she had me notarize her signature.