Posted by staceyten on 2/13/11 9:58pm
Msg #372644

New Business

I am new to the signing business, about 6 mos... The majority of my business has come from a company that pays 40 to 60 bucks per appointment but they keep me pretty busy. My question is how can I find better paying companies that will keep me relatively busy? I can't imagine another 6 mos of haggling over an extra 10 bucks, I enjoy the work but I have children that need me more. I'd appreciate any leads...Thanx

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/13/11 10:34pm
Msg #372646

The question is: do you want to spend more time away from your children doing 3 when you could be doing just one for the same money? Signing Central is your answer... and just saying no to these 40-60 buck deals.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/13/11 10:43pm
Msg #372647

The first thing you need to realize is that in this business, you CANNOT make a profit at $40-$60 a pop, no matter how busy they keep you. Your costs (you have figured out your costs, right?) are all fixed; they can't be reduced by volume. What that means is that the more of these low-ball jobs you do, the more money you are losing. You would actually be saving money by turning those assignments down.

Beyond that, I'll go out out on a limb and predict that no one here is going to give you a lead... Those who have better clients have worked hard to get them; they're not about to hand them over to you just because you asked politely. You need to figure out who the major players are in your area, and start marketing yourself to them - make them want to hire you. If you can't or won't do that, you're in the wrong business.

This was not intended as a slam, just as a reality check. You've entered a profession that is basically on life-support right now; not a good time to get in, and definitely not a good time to ask others for help if you're just starting out.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 2/14/11 12:07am
Msg #372649

Stacy, Mike and Lee have about said it all, I'll

just add that this is a stressful job. Not only deadlines, but scheduling, traffic, parking, tolls, rural roads - whatever your area is like, traffic and deadlines are stressful.

Keep in mind too that payments are not immediate, and 30/60/90+ days are the rule. No-pays, and slow pays are just looking for newbies like you.

Running any business is not easy, not instant, and not for the feint of heart - this one even more so.

Just throwing out an idea here if you like physical labor and are a good nit-picker: my friend (single Mom, five little ones,) is a professional property cleaner. She has a book of busines combining Vacation Rentals and Residentials. She charges (in our Central Oregon Coast) $18.90 - $25/hr, and manages to support her family - which, if I had to say, as a seasoned mobile notary in *this* biz, I could not even do for myself here in today's marketplace - as there is no predictable income to budget.

Another friend started a cake business last year, and has expanded from her kitchen to sharing a kitchen facility with another local business - she made the Valentine's cake for my Dad - it was Navy-themed, delish, and adorable. She started out because a friend of hers asked her to make her wedding cake!

Just some ideas for local income among neighbors, rather than national work for strangers.

Best of luck, Stacy.

Reply by Stoli on 2/14/11 12:38am
Msg #372650

What a lovely, thoughtful post, Susan. Thank you. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 2/14/11 8:51am
Msg #372658

Being new to the biz, you don't realize that you are

actually hurting the industry by accepting those low fees, and keeping cos. like Nations Direct in biz. While $40 to $60 may seem like good money to you, IMO you are operating a charity. Without sufficient profit, you are actually paying them to take the assignments.

Reply by Stacie/CA on 2/14/11 2:49pm
Msg #372708

Re: Being new to the biz, you don't realize that you are

Amen to what you said MW/VA! I have not finished reading all the posts on this subject yet, I don't think I will. You said it all. Thank you.

Reply by ME/NJ on 2/14/11 9:05am
Msg #372659

Keep taking those 50 dollar jobs

Because you will be broke very shortly. Even if you did 10/week by the time you pay for the following- gas, paper, toner add NJ traffic and NJ cost of living you will kick yourself saying why did I do it.

Now that you did the 50 dollar job can you wait 60 days before you get the payment while shelling out money to do singings? Because I know the cheap notaries in my area died off (there are a couple left) they can have the work.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/14/11 9:30am
Msg #372662

Although those fees are way out of line as far as I'm concerned one thing you should be considering is replacement cost for the items (printers, computer, etc) that are definitely going to wear out or break. You should at least be adding that amount to your fee structure and setting it aside so you done have to use a credit card. IMO

Reply by 101livescan on 2/14/11 10:55am
Msg #372672

You're giving yourself away for free, no profit. You must not need the money that much. You might as well not charge at all. Then you'll burn out completely. Hone your skills and hone your fee structure because the fees you're accepting says everything about how you feel about you as a professional. NOT ENUF!

Reply by MarieG/CA on 2/14/11 12:44pm
Msg #372686

Those are definitely low fees! I'm starting out myself and there is no way I will take a signing for $50.

The lowest I've accepted is $40, but it was for 7 pages and only one notarization and it was 5 miles away.

But yes, as someone mentioned, no wonder it's so slow if there are NSA's accepting such low paying assignments

Reply by Daniel Lutz on 2/14/11 12:50pm
Msg #372687

WOW!!! IN NJ accepting $40-$60 signing orders.... I know a few people said not to be critical but Come one Stacey this company is taking advantage of you... Sure they are supplying you with great volume of work right now... but that volume is sure to die down. A lot of notaries have gotten into this business with your same intentions of wanting to be able to have steady work..

But you're actually creating a disservice to us all....
Once a title company/signing company has someone in an area to accept low fees/ gas money as that's all that will get you with 40-60.

Personnel are determined to try those fees with every other notary in a general area...
how do I know well I used to work for a Title agency... Not a scheduling dept... but I sat next to and was lunch buddies with alot of them.. and still are...

Once you know their dirty tricks... sure you may be turning down work but you are atleast being held to a standard... now no one on here is going to persuade you into anything all we can do is inform you that your bending over with your dress up on that one...

and as far as anyone helping you on here ha! well as far as clients and where to go...
don't trust anyone on here to direct you to a company where you will be their competition.

Other than that tell that company you want more and if they say we can't do that(hint) if its a few hours before a signing they probably haven't found anyone to do it for their lowball fees or the docs were just approved and they need a notary real bad... ask for 30-40 dollars more than you get now...

Good Luck

Reply by jnew on 2/14/11 12:57pm
Msg #372689

If I were given a dollar for every time I have turned away lowball offers that is the only way I could have made a profit. We are in business to make money and must be paid fairly for providing a valuable service.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/11 1:20pm
Msg #372692

How familiar are you with this site?

You must have some familiarity as you are at Notary Talk.

Do you see all the tabs above? Do you see Signing Central? Have you looked at it yet? If you go there and do a bit of reading, it will give you further ideas on finding companies.

Go to Find a Notary tab. Look in your zip code to see who your competition is in your area.

Have you been reading here to see what all you need in order to be in business? How to price yourself? What being self-employed means? Do you know what the Orange Search button is? How to use it? Start by searching Msg #33325 , or just click on it in this message if it comes up blue. Read this thread and get some ideas. That Orange Search button, along with Google, is your friend. Sometimes we use our friends - and in this case I suggest you use it a lot while you are getting started here.

If you are really serious about this being a business for you, you will follow these suggestions and get yourself on another road, the one to success. It is not easy, it will not be easy, but it can, with a good deal of elbow grease (work) and imagination, be rewarding. Then again, it may not. Your timing is not the best. Sometimes though, bad times are just the time to start.

Good luck to you....it do wish you well.

Reply by jba/fl on 2/14/11 1:22pm
Msg #372693

Correction: Good luck to you....I do wish you well. n/m

Reply by staceyten on 2/14/11 3:04pm
Msg #372714

I really do appreciate the feeback, Thank You

Reply by James Dawson on 2/14/11 3:42pm
Msg #372722

If anything, at least go to signing central and see what the other notaries are saying about the companies you are working for. Good Luck!

Reply by Victoria_NJ on 2/15/11 1:14pm
Msg #372851

Determine your costs

Stacey,

@ $50 for a closing, you have to determine your gas & print costs in addition to your labor costs.

Maybe $50 is a decent fee if you don't have to travel to far, you are savvy enough that you are using tools like Ebates to get cash back on your office supplies, are buying discount laser toner, etc.

For example, I have a Brother laser printer - the normal off the shelf cost for one toner cartridge is $55.00. However, I can buy $6 refills online and use the same cartridge for about 3 refills. That saves me $147.00.

If an average edoc pkg is 125 -150 pages and you have to make a borrower copy, ask your client if you can make the borrower copy on all letter size paper. Letter size is cheaper than legal.

Additionally, are you buying discount cases of paper? I have found them as low as $30 per case + actual cash back from ebates. So to print 300 pages out $0.006 per page only costs you $1.80. So let's say that your paper and toner cost per closing is $5.00

Now you are at $45.00 for time and travel. Well, if you keep your closings to a distance of 30-45 miles each way and your car gets 20 miles to the gallon, you have just spent $13.50 in gas.

An average refi closing should take about 30 minutes to perform the actual closing, but's let factor in that you got some bone-head who wants to read EVERYTHING and it takes you an hour. So, you just earned $31.50 for an hour's worth of work.

I am not sure what you were doing before you became a notary, but if you were making over $30 - 60 per hour, I'd need to ask you WHY you quit your day job?

So, any closings where you make over $50.00 and have the same travel time and time to close gives you a higher hourly rate. If you have to add some travel time to it but cut down the actual face to face time doing the closing, you are probably still in that $30-60 per hour range even at $50 - $75 per closing.

Once you get the closings that are paying over $75.00, well, you are making some good money at a flexible job, working from home - take all the business you can get that makes sense for you to take.

Market yourself, get a list of referrals you can use to create more clients and more business.

And remember, if you are creating an actual company (I'd suggest an LLC), ALL THE ABOVE EXPENSES ARE WRITE-OFFS.

So there you have it - I have been in this business, helping create other businesses as well as running my own for over 25 years. Slow dollars or fast nickels? Sometimes you have to take what you can get in order to get established.

As to the low ball companies, they will always exist, they will always be cheap a$$es. Once you have established your own book of business, you can pick and choose who you want to do business with and who you don't.

THAT is the wonder and miracle of being in business for yourself !

Best of luck and great success.

victoria

Reply by jba/fl on 2/15/11 2:12pm
Msg #372863

Re: Determine your costs

All well and fine, but the fallacy here is the wait time - waiting for docs, waiting while docs are printing, waiting in traffic, waiting to drop off package. Then there are taxes, advertising costs, and a whole lot more than comes out of that amount you agreed upon. Take those out also - Uncle Sam demands his portion. That $31 +/- per hour has just been reduced further.

Don't forget phone calls - where are my docs? Where is my borrower? Where is......
More wait time.

Be realistic.

Reply by Victoria_NJ on 2/15/11 3:13pm
Msg #372891

Re: Determine your costs

Wait time to me is just time to do something else - maybe I am the ultimate multi-tasker? But who just sits around and "waits"? Do you actually watch your printer print docs or go do something productive for the 10 minutes of print time? I'd be checking my calendar, checking into Facebook, updating my websites, creating new click throughs. . . Clean your refrigerator, write that Notary manual you have always wanted to write, etc.

It costs me $20 per month to have a website and $15 annually to have a unique URL. That's my only advertising I have ever done since 1994. That's less than $300 per year so at max my advertising costs are $25 per month which = pennies per closing.

99% of my clients use email only to contact me or text messages - they know when I am out of the office as I give them my out of office schedule daily, sometimes a couple times a day.

I have never had to wait to drop docs once the closing is done. What are you waiting on?

You are in business for yourself, it is your responsibility to manage not only your own time but your clients as well. I have "fired" several clients for being time wasters. It happens, there will be companies and individuals who would suck 8 hours a day out of you for one closing if you allow it. Don't allow it.

I believe in streamlined processes, time management and good software tools. and, even if you were paying 30% taxes on your business, you'd still have made $21 dollars per hour for a one hour closing or $42 if you did it in 1/2 an hour.

I don't count normal travel time to a job, just the gas/mileage since if you had a "real" job, your employer would NOT be paying your commute time.

There are people who do a 4 hour commute each way from the PA border to Manhattan - do you think they are getting compensated for sitting in traffic 8 hrs per day? No, they aren't - b/c they made that decision to do the drive when they took the job.

All in all, this is an excellent industry to be in b/c real estate is a constant and one of the highest national commodities we have in the US. Even in the worst of time, real estate moves.

And, for the lower priced closings, you also mix in the higher priced ones that are the "gravy".

A good book I read YEARS ago is called "The 1 Minute Manager". Many of the same principals apply in today's business markets.

Just my thoughts and I am probably the most realistic person you will ever meet. Anything can be accomplished with the right tools.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Victoria

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/16/11 11:21pm
Msg #373067

Re: Determine your costs

Ummm.... part of what we are PAID to do is travel, so, yes, drive time counts. Print time also counts. As does computer, phone, and dropping those docs time...all adds up and your 1 minute managing just ignores reality.

Reply by Victoria_NJ on 2/15/11 10:06am
Msg #372821

Stacey - contact me to discuss closing opportunities in NJ n/m