Posted by Lora on 2/15/11 2:50pm
Msg #372881

Subsribing witness

Subscribing witness has to sign document and journal. Where does he/she need to sign on document and does he/she need to write Subscribing witness and put the signature next to it?

Reply by BEEJ on 2/15/11 2:52pm
Msg #372882

In NY there is a line at the bottom of document with the words "WITNESS" and a line to sign on. Some states don't allow subscribing witness signatures.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 2/15/11 5:25pm
Msg #372905

Who told you that??

That's not the way it works in NY at all - quoting from NY's Real Property Law, section 304:

"When the execution of a conveyance is proved by a subscribing witness, such witness must state his place of residence, ... and that he knew the person described in and who executed the conveyance. The proof must not be taken unless the [notary] is personally acquainted with such witness, or has satisfactory evidence that he is the same person, who was a subscribing witness to the conveyance."

That's how you're SUPPOSED to handle a subscribing witness in NY, and it's only for real property conveyances - not for general acknowledgments. If you don't already have it, there's a PDF of the Notary Public License Law available for download at

http://www.dos.state.ny.us/licensing/notary/notary.html

It's really just a mish-mash of the laws that relate to notaries public here, but it's better than nothing.

Reply by Penney/CA on 2/15/11 2:56pm
Msg #372885

Credible witnesses are only required to sign the Notarial Journal. They do not sign the documents. See the California notary public handbook page 15.

Reply by Lora on 2/15/11 3:33pm
Msg #372893

check www.onlinenotarycourse.com(online notary course for California) it is written: The Subscribing witness must sign the document and the notary's journal....

Reply by James Dawson on 2/15/11 2:56pm
Msg #372886

See page 12 of the State of California handbook, you should have one otherwise it is on-line at the Secretary of State website.

Reply by Lora on 2/15/11 4:03pm
Msg #372897

Page 12 of http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-handbook-2010.pdf:

that Sue is the person who signed the document as a subscribing witness(

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/15/11 3:02pm
Msg #372887

Re: Subsribing witness....considering the complexity of

the procedure in CA, I'm not so sure she really means "Subscribing Witness"....

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/notary/forms/notary-handbook-2010.pdf

Reply by James Dawson on 2/15/11 3:34pm
Msg #372894

Re: Subsribing witness....considering the complexity of

Well.....that's what she typed .....If I were to be doing this, I would be giving her an Oath but then the Document would already have to have been signed huh?

If that isn't what she meant I would suggesting reading the handbook pages 1 thru 56. IMO

Reply by James Dawson on 2/15/11 3:36pm
Msg #372896

oH WELL.There it is, taking a couse.. n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 2/16/11 2:29pm
Msg #373014

My Sister...follow up (while studing for my test )

A Cal all-purpose Ack cannot be used...according to Ca Civil code 1195 it must be something similar to this below

State of California )
ss.
County of __________ )

On ____ (date), before me, the undersigned, a notary public
for the state, personally appeared ____ (subscribing witness's
name), personally known to me (or proved to me on the oath of
____ İcredible witness's name], who is personally known to me)
to be the person whose name is subscribed to the within instrument,
as a witness thereto, who, being by me duly sworn, deposed and said
that he/she was present and saw ____ (nameİs] of principalİs]),
the same person(s) described in and whose name(s) is/are
subscribed to the within and annexed instrument in his/her/their
authorized capacity(ies) as (a) party(ies) thereto, execute the same,
and that said affiant subscribed his/her name to the within
instrument as a witness at the request of ____ (nameİs] of
principalİs]).

WITNESS my hand and official seal.
Signature________________________________ (Seal)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/15/11 4:32pm
Msg #372899

Lora, obviously the Handbook doesn't address where the subscribing witness needs to sign on the document. Presumably they could just draw a line somewhere near the principal's signature (if there isn't a place for a witness signature) and sign there. Again, there's no stated requirement for the witness to put "Subscribing Witness". That wording is really more for the notary than for the document recipient, but I think it would probably be a good idea to state something like "witnessed by".

BTW, when I read the paragraph you referred to, I noticed something I had either forgotten or wasn't aware of, so thanks for posting this. Specifically, that it's a requirement that the subscribing witness provides BOTH an ID (satisfactory evidence of their own identification) AND another person to act as credible witness who knows BOTH the notary and the subscribing witness herself. Seems to me that this would most likely be possible with a company in-house notary and another fellow employee who was acting as subscribing witness for some one else in the company.

Good luck!

Reply by GWest on 2/15/11 4:45pm
Msg #372902

Also, can not be used in conjunction with a quitclaim deed, grant deed, mortgage, deed of trust or security instrument.

Reply by Lora on 2/15/11 4:48pm
Msg #372903

THANK YOU!!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 2/15/11 5:13pm
Msg #372904

Glad to try to help, although - and maybe because - it was clear that you'd already done your homework on this. Sometimes there aren't any clear answers to the questions we have and we just have to use our own best judgment.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/16/11 2:26pm
Msg #373012

Re: F Y I Lori you cannot use a CA ALL purpose ACK

It has to be something like this.. per Civil code 1195

State of California )
ss.
County of __________ )

On ____ (date), before me, the undersigned, a notary public
for the state, personally appeared ____ (subscribing witness's
name), personally known to me (or proved to me on the oath of
____ İcredible witness's name], who is personally known to me)
to be the person whose name is subscribed to the within instrument,
as a witness thereto, who, being by me duly sworn, deposed and said
that he/she was present and saw ____ (nameİs] of principalİs]),
the same person(s) described in and whose name(s) is/are
subscribed to the within and annexed instrument in his/her/their
authorized capacity(ies) as (a) party(ies) thereto, execute the same,
and that said affiant subscribed his/her name to the within
instrument as a witness at the request of ____ (nameİs] of
principalİs]).

WITNESS my hand and official seal.
Signature________________________________ (Seal)