Posted by Cheryl Meril on 2/3/11 12:02pm
Msg #371369

They Expect Loose Certificates Sent Without Originals

In CA, the law states notaries cannot send loose certificate notarizations without the original document. The other day I got a call requesting I redo a certificate due to initials being in the margin. I told them they needed to send the original back and that was the law. The lady said notaries do it all the time. I figured that's probably because other states allow the practice. So poor California notaries have to be accused of being difficult for following the law I see.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/3/11 12:32pm
Msg #371377

No, it isn't because any other state allows the practide.
It is a matter of the company saying it is done all the time to persuade you to do something you know is illegal.

Next time a company asks you to do that ask them to put it in writing (e-mail) and you will run it by your Secretary of State. Donuts to a dollar they will not put the request in writing as they know it isn't legal.

Reply by roxierox/TX on 2/3/11 7:20pm
Msg #371506

That is right. It is ilegal for a notary in any state to notarize an incomplete document. They just thought that you would cave if you heard that all the other notaries do it.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 2/3/11 12:48pm
Msg #371380

Companies say that all the time to persuade you to break the law. When I get requests like that, I remind them of the code they they are asking me to violate, that what they are asking is illegal and per California law, anybody knowingly asking a CA notary to break the law is, in fact, breaking the law themselves. I cite to them Government Code 8225 which states, "Any person who solicits, coerces, or in any manner influences a notary public to perform an improper notarial act knowing that act to be an improper notarial act, including any act required of a notary public under Section 8206, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."


At that point, they now KNOW what they're asking is illegal... and if they ask again, I tell them I want the request in writing. Because you know what? I'm going to promptly report it to the Secretary of State.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/3/11 12:58pm
Msg #371383

It happens so much that I actually have copies made so I can hand it to the person asking me in person. Otherwise I just cut and paste this:

8225. (a) Any person who solicits, coerces, or in any manner
influences a notary public to perform an improper notarial act
knowing that act to be an improper notarial act, including any act
required of a notary public under Section 8206, shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor.
(b) Notwithstanding any other limitation of time described in
Section 802 of the Penal Code, or any other provision of law,
prosecution for a violation of this offense shall be commenced within
four years after discovery of the commission of the offense, or
within four years after the completion of the offense, whichever is
later.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 2/3/11 1:09pm
Msg #371385

TN Law doesn't even mention loose certificates.

I will not do one without the original or at least a color scan of one.

Reply by Cheryl Meril on 2/3/11 1:40pm
Msg #371392

Re: What About When They Reuest Unstapled Documents?

I've also had a few request I leave all documents unstapled. I told them I couldn't do that for notarized documents.

I'm really shocked at how they try to get people to violate the law. The statement was "99% of the time notaries just send in a loose certificate". It must be a tactic to make you feel like a freak.

Reply by Mary Ellen Elmore on 2/3/11 1:43pm
Msg #371394

Re: What About When They Reuest Unstapled Documents?

They don't realize we are grown up and no longer succumb to peer pressure.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/3/11 1:48pm
Msg #371395

Re: What About When They Reuest Unstapled Documents?

"I've also had a few request I leave all documents unstapled. I told them I couldn't do that for notarized documents. "

Yes you can - just make sure your certificate is clearly marked as to which document it is "attached" to - they don't want staples because the docs are normally scanned in. Recorders, too, frown on staples...

Reply by James Dawson on 2/3/11 2:00pm
Msg #371400

Re: What About When They Reuest Unstapled Documents?

Linda, just a question? Couldn't that be specific to a State or TC. I do staple all my ACKS and Jurats to the Doc they're suppose to go with when doing General notary work. With Loans I attach (staple) to signature page and fill out the bottom of the ACK showing the doc it is supposed to be attached to and the number of pages. I do not staple the entire DOT (for example).

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 2/3/11 2:06pm
Msg #371402

Possibly James...but with today's technology

you have to know that title is scanning that pkg when it's received and recorders are scanning in to record...heck, I live in Mayberry and they do it here...

Besides, she asked "what if they request unstapled documents" - that's what I was answering.

Reply by James Dawson on 2/3/11 2:10pm
Msg #371403

Re: Possibly James...but with today's technology

Yea...I was reading too much into this...

Reply by rengel/CA on 2/3/11 2:29pm
Msg #371408

Re: What About When They Reuest Unstapled Documents?

"I'm really shocked at how they try to get people to violate the law. The statement was "99% of the time notaries just send in a loose certificate". It must be a tactic to make you feel like a freak."

Nope, they do this because they have screwed up and want YOU to put YOUR butt on the line to save THEIRS!

My .02

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 2/3/11 3:58pm
Msg #371467

I personally give grace to the title company employees because I know they have not received training that would educate them as to the illegality of the request. Since many notaries are also uneducated, and respond positively to their requests, it is no wonder they think we're nuts when we comply with our individual state's regulations. I know they haven't received the training because I was in their position and know most have zero education on notary regs. If they received the same response from all notaries, we wouldn't receive such requests. Hence, I lay the blame at the feet of the uneducated or unethical notaries complying with these requests. JMHO

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 2/4/11 12:28pm
Msg #371575

What you said: "The other day I got a call requesting I redo a certificate due to initials being in the margin."

What I wonder: Was this request for a new cert page on a mortgage?

Why I ask: Recording requirements specify the required 'clean' margin areas, and putting marks w/in those areas could (on a bad hair day) result in the clerk kicking the mtg back.

IF this is the case, then I think it's only fair to note - as we expect things from our clients, they also expect things from us. If we're out there doing loan signings, we do need to be aware of and adhere to those recording requirements.

Again, IF this is indeed what happened - pure speculation on my part.

Reply by Cheryl Meril on 2/4/11 2:11pm
Msg #371595

It was for CitiMortgage that they said is very particular about marks in the margin, I didn't find out until it was too late.