Posted by ReneeK_MI on 1/21/11 12:01pm
Msg #369537

NASS released comprensive report - e-Notarizations

The report is accessible from the homepage, select "NASS Notarization Report" in the Spotlight section.

http://www.nass.org/

The report is an excellent read, covering all the various laws that orbit around our world.

The report includes the very direct & concise statement that ALL states require e-Notarizations to be performed face-to-face, live & in-person.

(I also see that Michigan is now shown as a member! I could be wrong, but had never seen the prior SOS shown on the Roster, nor saw MI represented in the discussions - if this is an act of the new SOS, I'm happy to see it!)

Reply by James Dawson on 1/21/11 12:10pm
Msg #369538

Thanks

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/21/11 12:32pm
Msg #369541

And there you go....Thanks Renee!!

In person and IN THE SAME ROOM....doesn't get much plainer than that..

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 1/21/11 12:42pm
Msg #369542

Although NN might argue that,

since "personal appearance" can mean "appearing by webcam", maybe "in the same room" can be applied liberally in the sense that the whole planet is "God's room"?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/21/11 12:43pm
Msg #369543

Oh Good Grief Robert...go to your corner!!..LOL... n/m

Reply by Ali/IL on 1/21/11 12:50pm
Msg #369545

Re: Oh Good Grief Robert...go to your corner!!..LOL...

Linda you are funny

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 1/21/11 12:55pm
Msg #369546

Re: Although NN might argue that,

I feel your frustration. The fact that people are in business making money doing something that seems on it's face to be illegal. And at least one state is attempting to make it legal.

I do think that NN will be put out of business the first time one of their acts is challenged and nullified in court. I am not going to quit watching the situation.

Reply by BobbiCT on 1/21/11 2:29pm
Msg #369570

There's personal appearance cases out there ...

There's precedent out there just waiting to be referred to in a good (aka interesting) lawsuit.

My favorite is a 1984 Nebraska Supreme Court case: Christensen v. Arant. What makes this interesting: the notary and the signer were close to each other, within speaking/hearing distance, but not within sight. The Judge's questions when ruling the contract was unenforceable because the wife was not actually "in the notary's presence": "How did the notary know the husband didn't force the wife to sign?" Were the couple doing this so that they could later claim a "legal loophole" to intentionally void the contract?

It's sitting out there waiting for a good reference from a newer lawsuit. The proof-is-in-the-pudding will not so much be the "where is the black-and-white Black's law, state statute/law definition" of individual words in a state's notary laws. It will be in the Judge's decisions from lawsuits that follow when a party to a notarized document wants to invalidate it. In the Christensen case, once the notarization was not good, the contract was unenforceable - no need to argue over any other legal issues or implications within the contract, simply "kill" the notarization and you "kill" the deal.

I first read about the case from The John Marshall Law Review 1998 Vol. 31 No. 3, thanks to Prof. of Law Michael L. Closen at an NNA conference.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/21/11 1:36pm
Msg #369557

Thanks so much, Renee. It's getting harder to sort facts

from all the mis-information being circulated. Thanks for doing the research on this.

Reply by Cari on 1/21/11 1:37pm
Msg #369558

Excellent! Thanks Renee! n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 1/21/11 1:41pm
Msg #369559

I'm also curious. How does anyone think e-notarization is

applicable???? Maybe within the goverment????

Reply by Les_CO on 1/21/11 2:40pm
Msg #369572

Re: I'm also curious. How does anyone think e-notarization is

I think we should be careful with our wording/name/descriptions. E-signing: Flagstar/Amtrust E-notarizations: notaries using a unique number as here in CO.
Or possibly “phantom” notarizations” for witness/notarizations done via means other than in person?

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/21/11 6:41pm
Msg #369601

Re: I'm also curious. How does anyone think e-notarization is

e-notarization isn't exactly the same thing as webcam notarization.

Several of us have electronic seals for use on electronic documents.... but (as it should be) utilize old-fashioned personal presence.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/21/11 8:00pm
Msg #369606

That's what I'm asking. What kind of electronic documents

get e-notarization. I'm trying to determine what the uses for e-notarization are.

Reply by PAW on 1/21/11 8:35pm
Msg #369607

Re: That's what I'm asking. What kind of electronic documents

Here's an example that I'm personally familiar with. I was contacted by a party in Bahrain to act as their agent in the US. A contract was prepared and agreed to by both parties. Rather then spending the time to mail the contracts back and forth, it was agreed that we would use an e-signature service and e-notarizations (acknowledgments). After everything is signed and sealed electronically, each party to the contract received a protected and verified copy of the contract with signatures, notary certificates and seals in tact.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/22/11 4:11pm
Msg #369656

Thanks as always, Paul, for a direct answer to a direct

question.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 1/22/11 4:39pm
Msg #369657

Re: That's what I'm asking. What kind of electronic documents

I use an electronic seal... right now I only use it at a particular law office that is paper-free. They file affidavits electronically with the court. I still meet the people in person at the office, and I maintain a paper journal as usual.... it's just that I utilize my electronic seal on an electronic document, rather than a rubber stamp on paper. When I do it, it's done is a secured PDF file and the PDF stamp of my seal (which I adapted from the electronic seal I got from NotRot is also secured.

I'm the only notary in my area that does this, so I've been told. It's not rocket science... but it involves some knowledge of securing PDF documents.

So, in my case, it's still done like a traditional notarization, only the document itself is electronic.

Reply by Michael Gilman on 1/22/11 2:06pm
Msg #369647

Renee,

Thanks for sharing. That truly is an informative document. Great information.

Reply by S Peterson on 1/23/11 2:58pm
Msg #369762

Found an error in this report. An Idaho Notary Public's term is 6 years, not 4.