Posted by NotaryMot/CA on 7/12/11 1:34pm
Msg #389473

Bulk Order Agencies Throwing Notaries Under The Bus

Agencies shouldn't be given large bulk order contracts with their clients in my opinion because it's hurting all of our businesses. Bulk order contracts enables the larger companies to get lower fees for our work making us all slaves working for $9.00 or below per hour. They take our fees from us and pay us over 45 days in many cases if at all. This arrangement also enables the agencies to usurp our relationship with the larger companies such as LSI who we would normally work directly for. An example of such an agency is www.Loan-Closers.com that recently called offering two refinances to perform over the weekend at $50 each for emailed docs. I was appalled.

The entire industry is cutting back significantly and I am disappointed many notaries are so easily giving in to this low balling effort. Usually it's nothing more than a matter of the agencies dining and schmoozing their clients to win the contracts at our expense. If we all protested and stood up to them as a group forming our own kind of union, they'd have no choice but to pay us a fair fee.

As has been requested on numerous occasions by many on NotRot, please stop accepting low ball orders - it will destroy our industry for years to come if you continue to do so. Here's a little tip to screen agencies - it's a good idea to see if the agency is negotiable on a fee or if they're locked into a contract with their client. If they're locked into a contract in which they can only offer a certain amount, regardless of the circumstances, never use them if you can. They're the one's who are destroying our industry by suckering into the banks and title companies turning us into below minimum wage slave labor. We're one of the few industries they can't ship our labor to third world countries. Please don't let them take our independence away.

Loan signing agents used to make $200-300 per signing easy prior to 2008. Gradually, they're widdeling away at us making it difficult to survive as costs rise on all fronts. They don't seem to care they're short changing us for our time and materials. It is not a good business that would get such a low ball contract to profit off of our work. We all need to stand up to them in the droves.

I propose forming a Loan Signing Agent union in which the major of all of us belong. It will force the banks to reconsider what they're doing to us. They think anyone can do our jobs and are treating us as such. We need to take the power back. What do you think about forming a union as such? Is this possible do you think?

Reply by Philip Johnson on 7/12/11 1:43pm
Msg #389474

I'll pass on the union,thanks. n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/12/11 1:50pm
Msg #389477

Ditto. n/m

Reply by Notarysigner on 7/12/11 2:32pm
Msg #389485

Ditto besides, too many scabs even with a closed shop.

Members of this forum probably make up less then 1% of the notaries out there. Even if everyone here agreed it would not be a voice that would be heard. IMO some TC and SS read this forum but get very few of their NSA from here.

Reply by Rich/PA on 7/12/11 1:53pm
Msg #389478

Supply and demand dictates market - always has. If someone wants to work on the edge of loss they wont last long.

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 7/12/11 1:54pm
Msg #389479

If you wish to form a union, you will need to buy a...

union suit.
I believe that the Sears catalog still offers them.
Trap drawer is optional.
If you are talking about a actual Union, I believe that it would in violation of Federal and
state anti-trusst laws in our business. Not legal opinion, yada yada

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/12/11 2:06pm
Msg #389484

Re: If you wish to form a union, you will need to buy a...

I agree, Bob and Rich/PA. They're free to make all the bulk offers they want, but they can't get us to agree to work for those kinds of fees. I'm convinced that's one reason that XYZ continues to try to promote the "need" for NSAs. It's a win/win for them (they're making money selling classes and supplies) and their cronies at the big title and settlement co's get an ongoing supply of newbies who don't know any better when it comes to fees.

All we can do, imo, is continue to make sound decisions about our own business practices and try to educate others whenever and wherever possible. Unions are for employees and we are business owners.

Reply by 101livescan on 7/12/11 2:48pm
Msg #389488

Re: If you wish to form a union, you will need to buy a...

I did a short sale purchase with a borrower who is pretty influential in the community. The escrow company the current lender used botched the job pretty significantly. It was not the kind of an assignment any newby or inexperienced run of the mill notary could have figured out, believe me. It will just continue to frustrate the borrowers to no end. We got through it....must close tomorrow. No room for error. No quit claim deed from husband and TA affidavit or PCOR in the package.

Reply by DaveCA/CA on 7/12/11 2:51pm
Msg #389489

Congratulations!!! I have created a union for us

Please send $50 to join plus $2 per signing. Rest assured that this money will be spent well. By the way, the membership fee is for one year. Save now and buy 2 years for only $125. ha ha ha. Sorry, I couldn't resist sounding like one of these database companies.

Reply by A S Johnson on 7/12/11 2:42pm
Msg #389486

The other trend is a organization ISGN which is now owned by an investment group in India.

Reply by jnew on 7/12/11 3:22pm
Msg #389499

I like the idea of the market deciding the fees. Cut rate notaries are going to be doing more work for less, so they are not going to profit from this trend. Quality notaries will still be in demand. They should not be fightened into donating their expertise for a low fee. You are only worth what a willing buyer is willing to spend, but they can't expect to get a quality job without paying a fair price. The client really has to be made aware that quality represents value and using a low quality notary is no value if the job has to be fixed or redone.

Reply by Stephanie Santiago on 7/12/11 3:41pm
Msg #389501

Thanks, but no thanks. n/m

Reply by MW/VA on 7/12/11 3:53pm
Msg #389503

Others have proposed the idea of a union. It won't fly

since we're independent contractors. It would also be illegal--price fixing, etc.
I hear your lament, but the days prior to 2008 are long gone. People made lots of money during the "bubble", but it's burst!
Many of the ss I work for have an inside track (contract, maybe?) to certain tc's. I'm grateful for that, because it usually means more steady work than the occasional call from an individual tc. I've said it before, but I wouldn't be in business except for ss. I've ditched the ones that are low-ballers, slow-pay or no-pay.
There's so much info out there on the current economic conditions.
If you haven't seen these 2 films, I recommend viewing: "Inside Job", and "Too Big to Fail" (HBO).

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/12/11 4:40pm
Msg #389514

"Inside Job" and "Too Big fo Fail" should me mandatory

viewing for all high-school and college seniors.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 7/12/11 6:09pm
Msg #389521

Re: "Inside Job" and "Too Big fo Fail" should me mandatory

I have had it on order from my local library since March 2011 - I was something like 120th on the request list. Now I am number 8 so it should be available to me soon. Glad so many are interested in seeing it!

Reply by Susan Fischer on 7/12/11 8:14pm
Msg #389531

Put away all heavy, throw-able objects and break out the

old TVBs (TV Bricks. Nerf.)

Lots of popcorn - no gooey butter - 'cause it's back-up ammo when we run out of TVBs. (You ~will~ throw popcorn at the screen.

(I love a few bon-bons - they're choco-chilly; and a bowl of strawberries with dunkings. Can't throw those. Coudn't happen.)

Can't wait for your review, Copperhead.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 7/12/11 4:06pm
Msg #389507

Some areas are just saturated with notaries.

It's supply and demand. I always do exceptional work and continue to market my individual talent at a professional fee. Nobody is busy like they were 5, 6 or even 1 year ago. Less people are buying houses but yet we have more notaries. There are plenty of desperate notaries (who were laid off from their day job or can't find work elsewhere) that will gladly accept as many $50 signings that they can get. How are you going to stop that....you can't.

Reply by Notarysigner on 7/12/11 4:39pm
Msg #389513

Re: Some areas are just saturated with notaries.

Exceptional work is the key I believe, you will be remembered for future assignments. Case in point, I got this email from a TC I did worked for in a city 68 miles from here one way.

"*Can we please have the same notary as before? (James H. Dawson) ? These are elderly people that get nervous with little changes.. We want to make it as smooth as possible J "

Sellers package

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 7/12/11 9:22pm
Msg #389541

Re: Some areas are just saturated with notaries.

My daughter had her closing last week. As we looked at the HUD the notary fee was $50.00! After the closing I commented on that fee. He stated the he gets volume for that lower fee! This package was 200 pgs and he drove 1 hr to the signing location at 9PM..How much volume can he do if hes traveling this far?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/13/11 12:56am
Msg #389546

Re: Some areas are just saturated with notaries.

That kind of "volume" would send some to debtor's prison if we had such a thing [and who knows what the future brings... ]

Of course, I seldom see a listed notary fee that matches with reality these days. I just came back from one that showed the notary fee as $200. I made a respectable fee, but it sure wasn't THAT respectable! I've also seen it the other way around, where I was paid more than what was listed on the HUD - apparently out of some other fund.

Reply by SharonMN on 7/13/11 11:21am
Msg #389580

"They" aren't forcing us to do anything. "They" are offering lower fees because people will take it. Don't accept the job if you don't make enough money at the price offered. You have the power. If you don't get enough work, you can find another client or another line of work, but you don't need to work for nothing (or a loss!)

Signing services have the same option. They can say to the title company that gives them the contract, "I'm sorry, but I can't find a quality notary for your job and still make money myself if you are only paying $XX. I'll have to charge you $XXX. They can either deal with the client at the higher fee, find another client, or get out of the SS business if it is no longer profitable.

Similar pay cuts are happening in the construction industry now that building and remodeling have slowed way down and there are way more carpenters, etc. than jobs. However, I'm pretty sure I still wouldn't be able to get someone to finish my basement for $500. Everyone would just say no, and I'd have to go without or raise my offer.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 7/13/11 11:26am
Msg #389581

well said SharonMN n/m

Reply by BossLadyMD on 7/13/11 2:41pm
Msg #389604

Nicely put but we have way too many folks saying yes :( n/m