Posted by JamesLee/VA on 7/28/11 7:29pm
Msg #391869
South Carolina Closing
Hey Guys,
I have a purchase transaction for a Virginia property, but the buyer is in South Carolina.
Can anyone confirm I do not need to use an attorney for this one? Since all docs are to be recorded in Virginia, which is not an attorney state, the closing should then fall under that states requirements correct?
Thanks for the advice!
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Reply by Les_CO on 7/28/11 9:27pm
Msg #391887
I believe the laws/rules/statutes requiring an attorney to do closings on real estate transactions (they do more than just witness signatures) within South Carolina fall under the SC Real Estate laws, not the notarial laws. If the property is in VA it would come under the VA real estate laws. In any case the notary must follow the state laws governing notarial law wherever the documents are signed. JMO
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Reply by MW/VA on 7/28/11 10:04pm
Msg #391896
IMO a notary can't do this in SC, regardless of where the property is. Too bad PAW can't answer this one & I know he'd have the answer. Do they have email in Heaven????
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/29/11 9:25am
Msg #391941
Here is information Paul posted about this elsewhere
Shoot me later for copying and pasting but..oh well - I found it through google.
Hope it helps.
Posted by Paul Williamson 1/30/2010:
"Conducting a real estate closing in SC is the practice of law (as defined by the SC courts and statutes), which only an attorney can do. Any reputable mortgage lender will require that an attorney be selected to conduct the closing. The choice of the closing attorney is up to the borrower, but often allows the lender to select the attorney and/or law firm to handle the closing.
Of the attorneys that I have spoken to or searched their websites for information on whether or not an attorney needs to be physically present and conduct the closing, all but one said that non-attorneys may not conduct the closing and the presence of the closing attorney is required. The one dissenting attorney didn't come out and say that "phone" presence is acceptable, but didn't rule it out either, citing an example of a SC property closing where the attorney was not physically present, but conducted the closing via telephone with a non-attorney representative from his firm.
The Supreme Court of South Carolina issued a memorandum to all attorneys (see http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/whatsnew/displaywhatsnew.cfm?indexID=575) regarding "Guidelines for Attorneys Conducting Residential Real Estate Closings".
The SC Bar Ethics Advisory committee stated in their newsletters:
Attorneys are advised to read these opinions carefully for guidance. While the Committee cannot issue a formal opinion on unauthorized practice issues, the consensus of the Committee is that a fair reading of these cases indicates that all aspects of real estate transactions must be conducted or supervised by lawyers. See Watson , 589 S.E.2d at 761. In addition, the cases have indicated specifically that a lawyer should be “physically present” at a closing. See Lester, 578 S.E.2d at 7."
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Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/11 10:07am
Msg #391946
Re: Here is information Paul posted about this elsewhere
So, if the buyer is in VA he uses VA law, otherwise, SC law.
Do we agree on this? Or does SC buyer get SC law at all times, regardless?
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/29/11 10:09am
Msg #391947
Not sure if this impacts just SC property or all
closings conducted in SC regardless of location of property. OP will have to research the Bar Ass'n opinions and decisions to determine.
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Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/11 10:21am
Msg #391948
Re: Not sure if this impacts just SC property or all
I would think (oh, oh, opinion) that in SC the buyer is going to have atty, period. If the buyer goes to VA he will be doing this under their laws. But, the SC buyer may have it ingrained that he must have an atty. and since purchase would have one anyway. A smart buyer would.
But (here we go) I have been known to be wrong and if so, I would want to know. I would be getting TC advice on this one for sure.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/29/11 10:23am
Msg #391949
I agree...any smart buyer should have an attorney
representing them - I'd never jump into something like that without one
But I've had numerous purchase closings - both cash and loan transactions - where the buyer just relied on the word of the title company...scarey scarey...
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Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/11 11:28am
Msg #391952
Re: I agree...any smart buyer should have an attorney
Okay.please someone smarter than I tell me what the purchaser signs at a cash real property closing that must be notarized?
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Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/11 11:38am
Msg #391954
Re: I agree...any smart buyer should have an attorney
Did not say cash purchase - only purchase. Loan could be there also.
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Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/11 12:03pm
Msg #391957
Re: I agree...any smart buyer should have an attorney
Yup. Could be a loan from the guys brother-in-law, or from a bank, and the real property could be used for collateral for the loan or not. But why would a SC attorney need to be involved? Is there something in Reg Z that I dont know about?
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/29/11 11:50am
Msg #391955
Les, in FL there's a Buyer's Affidavit that is signed n/m
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Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/11 11:54am
Msg #391956
Re: Les, in FL there's a Buyer's Affidavit that is signed
Also need a notary to keep the paperwork going if the Realtor is there chatting about curtains, where furniture should be placed, the .....
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Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/11 12:04pm
Msg #391958
Re: Les, in FL there's a Buyer's Affidavit that is signed
Thanks! I learn something every day on this board!
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Reply by jba/fl on 7/29/11 12:14pm
Msg #391959
Re: Les, in FL there's a Buyer's Affidavit that is signed
You and me also. I don't care how many loan packages I've done, there appears to be something in every package I've never seen before. Some form, someone's obscure idea of how to do things. Then, of course, there are the people who just have their own set of idiosyscracies that they bring to the table. Keeps one hopping though, that's for sure.
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Reply by Les_CO on 7/29/11 2:23pm
Msg #391970
Re: Les, in FL there's a Buyer's Affidavit that is signed
As many have said most of this is really not our job, but as a NSA its nice to know. I really dont plan on working as a notary in another State, and sometimes its very difficult to find the exact law or rule, and why or who thought it up. I know there is some regulation in Texas stating that if the borrower gets any cash out of a HELOC the signing must be done in a title company or attorneys office? Who thought that up? Is that a RE rule, or a lending rule, insurance rule, or a UPL rule? Ive (in the past) done many signings for Hilton on FL properties and dont recall seeing a buyers affidavit, but the buyers we here, and not in FL, and Ive been known to forget stuff. In MD and IN the closers need a TPL. In VA if any cash (money) is involved in the transaction the persons doing the signing must be CRESPA approved? Surly these arent RE laws? Probably something from the insurance regulators or consumer protection, or who knows.
As the OP asked I dont think in these circumstances (property out of State, buyer signing a few docs) that an attorney need be involvedbut as others have said its Titles call not ours. JMO
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Reply by JamesLee/VA on 7/29/11 7:38pm
Msg #392008
Than You Everyone for Your Input
I ended up hiring an attorney to conduct the closing. Its to my understanding that Notary signing agents can conduct refinances as witness only, but attorneys need to conduct purchases. Now whether or not the SC laws govern VA transactions I'm still not 100% clear, but I played the safe card.
Again Thank You!
JLee
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/29/11 9:00pm
Msg #392018
Re: Than You Everyone for Your Input
"Its to my understanding that Notary signing agents can conduct refinances as witness only"
I don't know who told you that James, but the info I posted says otherwise....an attorney must always be involved in all real estate transactions where property is conveyed or an interest in property is pledged as collateral...
Glad you got it resolved though - better safe than sorry.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 7/29/11 9:01pm
Msg #392020
Forgot...in SC...":) n/m
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