Posted by ZoeyOR on 3/10/11 1:47pm
Msg #375757

Back dating

Do you feel ok about having the borrowers back date their disclosure docs in your presence?

Reply by Sandra Clark on 3/10/11 4:08pm
Msg #375788

That is not okay. Why would you even ask that? Back dating is never okay in my book.

Reply by ZoeyOR on 3/10/11 4:21pm
Msg #375790

I don't feel ok about it, but the SS who asked me to do it said " all the notaries do this", "you are being unreasonable since they are not notarized docs", "the borrower has already agreed to do it, so in effect you are not asking him to backdate" blah blah blah
I told him to find another notary.

Reply by Doris_CO on 3/10/11 4:40pm
Msg #375792

Those are probably broker docs. These are the disclosures that should have been sent to the borrower within three days of their application for the loan. The broker probably wants these signed copies for their file and wants the date to reflect the three day period of the loan application.

Reply by pat/WA on 3/10/11 5:05pm
Msg #375796

I don't back date. What the borrower does is not my concern

Reply by ZoeyOR on 3/10/11 5:20pm
Msg #375798

So Pat and Doris would have taken the signing and "allowed" the borrower to back date 2 weeks?

Reply by pat/WA on 3/10/11 5:30pm
Msg #375800


I never back date any document that I have signed but what the borrower signs is his decision

Reply by aries/CA on 3/10/11 6:07pm
Msg #375802

I would tell the broker to do it, since is their problem. They should know better to send the disclosures right away not wait and have someone else do their job.

Reply by Sandra Clark on 3/10/11 7:23pm
Msg #375811

To each is own. If a package is sent to me and I am witnessing signatures, dates etc I want the docs to reflect the date they were signed in my presence.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/10/11 8:19pm
Msg #375824

This is (unfortunately) common practice. It is always the sign of a lazy, cheap LO who never got the borrower to sign the predisclosures in a timely manner - or, if the borrowers indeed received the predisclosures for signatures, they never sent them back. It is not "backdating: in the sense that somebody is doing something wrong, however.

Sometimes the lender will have a big "use this date" alert in the docs, indicating that all following docs will be signed by the borrower using such and such a date. More often that not, the lender will have already typed in the earlier date so all the borrower has to do is sign.

In any case, I resent having to sit there while the borrower wades through all these predocs that should have been signed ages ago - and in many cases having to explain why they have to date two months earlier (which always annoys them.) AIN'T MY JOB!

Basically, now I just hand them the big stack, tell them to go at it - and I don't even watch what they're doing or how they're dating and I don't double check. I just throw them in with the regular docs and if the LO doesn't like it, toooo bad.

Reply by ZoeyOR on 3/10/11 8:39pm
Msg #375829

I think we have varying opinions on what is "right". Sure there may be no problem with signing a disclosure dated differently than today's date but I find that being a party to that is "wrong" for me. I tell the borrowers if they want to sign docs with the date preprinted wrong, that is their choice. But I would never instruct them to back date; which I believe is lying!
And I surely don't want a SS telling me what is right/wrong!

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/10/11 10:34pm
Msg #375848

You might want to try the next time that happens

I understand how you, personally and being a NP, would be uncomfortable asking the borrowers to sign anything with the incorrect dates. It does go against the nature of what being a NP stands for, IMO.

Since the docs in question are not ones that you as a NP need to sign, perhaps you can ask the SS or TC to make a call while you are at the table and have them talk to the signers about them and the date. I know it is a little bit of extra work, but that way YOU are not the one asking them to backdate anything. If they decide to then that's between them and the TC.

Mike is correct that it is usually either a lazy LO or borrower, in the case of not signing or returning the required RESPA docs in time.

Either way, I wouldn't lose a signing over it since you are not notarizing that they signed on any date other than the day they were in front of you.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/10/11 9:36pm
Msg #375841

I don't care what date the borrower uses - that's not backdating, as we understand the term, and it's between them and the lender.

The only date that concerns me is the date on the notarial certificates - that will ALWAYS be the date the signer appears before me; the other dates on the documents are not my concern. If the SS or TC pressures me to do otherwise (and it has happened occasionally, even with a regular client), I politely tell them to find another notary. Backdating a notarization is a felony here in NY; you can't throw enough money at me to make me willing to risk that...

Reply by enotary/va on 3/10/11 9:56pm
Msg #375844

I agree with Mike.. And I would not try to play lawyer and give the BO advice as to what they should or should not do..... And I would also never backdate anything I notarize.....

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/10/11 10:39pm
Msg #375849

Nobody's talking about backdating anythng we notarize. Geez! The OP's point is how do we feel about instructing the borrower to date the predisclosures for the date they were "supposed" to have been signed. My impression is that SSs cave in to the lender to get these done at the actual signing because the LO was:
1. Too lazy to get it done when the prediscloures were supposed to have been signed.
2. and/or too cheap to hire a notary to take the predisclosures to the borrower at the time of origination.

So then they dump these on us, expecting us to get the borrower to sign so the LO's files can be in compliance. I suppose we could refuse to play along but how much trouble would we be in if we refused? I think one of the other posters said that the SS said "all notaries do this." Which is probably true ....