Posted by HisHughness on 3/23/11 11:17am
Msg #377210

Ran across something yesterday...

...I hadn't seen before: The Deed of Trust did not list a trustee. That entire section was blank. I've seen them where no address was listed for the trustee, but never one where there was no trustee named.

This being a Deed of Trust, I'm thinking the trustee is in essentially the same position as the grantee on a Warranty Deed, and without a trustee listed, there is no conveyance into trust. The whole instrument is invalid. Dunno that fer shure, but seems that might be the case.

Of course, what the title company is going to do is simply insert the name of the trustee, reprint that page, and substitute it in the deed, since the pages were not initialed.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 3/23/11 12:52pm
Msg #377226

you're probably right, but then again IMO, the NSA shouldn't

have notarized the BO sigs on that particular deed, since its considered a "blank" form.

At least I wouldn't have, and prior to the closing would called TC or hiring party to let them know.

...but that's just me...

Reply by desktopfull on 3/23/11 12:59pm
Msg #377230

I agree, shouldn't have been notarized blank. n/m

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/23/11 2:36pm
Msg #377268

Sounds like logistical issue, & 'blanks' aren't always issue

MI removed the 'no blanks' from their NP Act, thankfully - just an fyi, all states are different.

If I recall correctly (and MI is NOT a DOT state, I could be wrong ... again), isn't the Title Agent the one who generally acts as Trustee (and not the mtgee)?? If so, then it makes sense - lender drafts the DOT, leaves Trustee field blank for Title Agent to complete prior to recording, just as they also add the legal description.

A lot of this type of stuff is being seen due to the logistics of e-docs, encryption, web-downloads, etc. Lender sends their entire pkg as a 'unit' & title adds their pkg, you get both. For Title to revise/add to the DOT prior to sending it, they'd have to take some extra steps & pull DOT from lender's pkg. Not always the safest way to protect the integrity of secure docs. Doing it AFTER, to the actual piece of paper could be the best way to keep things secure.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/23/11 3:00pm
Msg #377277

Re: Sounds like logistical issue, & 'blanks' aren't always issue

Wow---> MI removed the 'no blanks' from their NP Act, thankfully - just an fyi, all states are different.

Renee, is there anything about not notarizing incomplete documents?

IMHO it is completely foul to add anything to a document after it has been notarized and left the notaries hands for a destination. It can certainly alter the "for the purposes stated therein" part. But, if the notary read the document to see if it did, or did not affect the document it seems close to UPL to make that determination...or not make it.

My not so humble O.

Reply by PAW on 3/23/11 5:58pm
Msg #377304

Re: Sounds like logistical issue, & 'blanks' aren't always issue

Florida does not have an issue with blanks, except when the document is blank, i.e., all blank spaces are blank, and the document is incomplete. The important part of the statue is whether or not the document is complete since a notary cannot notarize signatures on incomplete documents.

Just because a document may contain blanks, does not necessarily make that document incomplete. Some form LPOAs, for example, have boxes to be initialed if that particular statement is to be included in the granting of authority, while an empty box (left blank) would indicate that that particular statement is NOT to be included in the grant.

The best LPOA I saw that had the "initial" boxes always included at least two boxes or a places for initials for every statement. One box if an "affirmative" response (statement is to be included) and one box if a "negative" response (statement is NOT to be included). This somewhat thwarts the ability to change the desires of the grantor after the document is executed.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/23/11 6:10pm
Msg #377306

The LPOA blanks are not really blanks, though.

They request an answer - do you? Don't you?

A blank without an initial completes the purpose of the document.

Reply by PAW on 3/23/11 8:33pm
Msg #377318

Re: The LPOA blanks are not really blanks, though.

>>> A blank without an initial completes the purpose of the document. <<<

If they're not blank, what are they? The FL statute does not say that a document containing blanks cannot be notarized, only if the document is blank or incomplete. A box without initials is blank. It's the same as if there were "initial here" lines ( _____ ) rather than boxes. If no initials are there, the space is blank. ... Really blank. But doesn't make the document incomplete.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/24/11 1:47am
Msg #377329

Re: Sounds like logistical issue, & 'blanks' aren't always issue

I have to agree, Brenda. When there's no trustee filled in, clearly it's an incomplete document. I've run into that several times. I ended up calling the tc and finding out exactly what needed to be filled in there and had a borrower print it in the space. Never heard of any problem recording.

A major pet peeve of mine is any document (or process) that is designed for certain information to be filled in after it is signed and notarized. If they would just put that info after the notary block or separate it out and label it "for office use only" or something, it would be a different story. It seems to be that if any of those docs ever ended up in court, a savvy attorney could easily have it tossed out. (But I'm no attorney, etc., etc....)

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 3/24/11 11:35am
Msg #377363

Brenda - consider ...

I don't know what the MI SOS intended when the statutes changed here, elliminating the prohibition against notarizing a document that contained blanks - but I have a good hunch it had to do with two things:

1. We (as notaries) are certifying nothing about the contents of the document, only that the signer acknowledged signing it and/or that the signer swore to it's truthfullness (truthiness?). If we are not responsible for the contents, well ...we are not responsible (period) & that is best set out as an absolute. Leaving gray areas demands interpretation of law, which we know makes us bad, bad notaries.

2. Hunch is that title agents got fed up with turning their protocols upside-down due to notaries needing the legal descriptions/attachments to mortgages PRIOR to notarizing. That would seem to provide some major push to facilitate the statute revision (which was done years ago, maybe in '02? I don't recall.)