Posted by notary365MI on 3/15/11 8:31pm
Msg #376281

SAME NAME AFFADAVIT

Three different companies.... two different outcomes. I have done closings for three different signing services. The Same Name Affadavit I get from each of them has almost exact wording but one just kicked back the Same Name Affadavit because I did not apply my seal. I admit to knowing only rookie stuff about this, but where have I gone wrong? I thought unless it said "witness my hand/seal" or "seal" I did not need to apply it.

Thanks in advance for the responses....

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/15/11 8:42pm
Msg #376282

Does Michigan require a notary seal? I know some states do not require the use of a seal.

Not all signing services are aware of this.

Safer to always apply your seal on your notary certificates for loan documents, even if the state doesn't require it.

Reply by notary365MI on 3/15/11 8:47pm
Msg #376284

I know that for notarial services on general documents, anything going out of state should have seal on it... however, the information I read (and just now read again) does not include documents that Signing Agents service.

Thanks for your answer. I was starting to feel bad because I check and recheck before returning doc's and could not understand how I missed this particular doc.

I remain teachable!

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/15/11 8:43pm
Msg #376283

Are you serious?

The use of a seal is governed by state law - in Michigan, a seal is not required, but you still must print, type or stamp certain information. Most notaries affix this information with a stamp, but whether or not a stamp is used, the information must be affixed to the document.

At least half of all certificates don't have the "Witness my hand and official seal" language on it, particularly jurats. Even when this language is not included, you should make a habit of affixing a seal, particularly on documents going out of state. If you are going to use a seal on some of the documents in a loan package, you need to use it on each one. I'm not surprised that the signing services had a problem with this.

Reply by notary365MI on 3/15/11 8:51pm
Msg #376285

Re: Are you serious?

Yes, I am serious! That's why I asked and again, I asked because of the three that I have done work for, one kicked back the docs' I did last week. Interestingly, I did another job for them back in January and the same name affadavit was not kicked back.

Sorry for asking a question I didn't already know the answer to! It wasn't a comparative question, it really was a I don't know question.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/15/11 8:59pm
Msg #376286

Re: Are you serious?

For loan signings, the lender and TC expect to see a notary seal on every notarized document. Some states don't require a seal, but the lender and TC still expect you to use one even if not required. A seal was not required in VA until 2008, but I used one before that even though it was not required.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 3/15/11 9:09pm
Msg #376287

Re: Are you serious?

I agree with Robert on this:

<< If you are going to use a seal on some of the documents in a loan package, you need to use it on each one. >>

However, since you are new I would like to clarify that he was referring to placing your notary stamp only on the NOTARIZED documents, not on every document in the package. The "witness my hand and official seal" verbiage is irrelevant - if a notary certificate is on the page in a loan package, then you are expected to complete it, sign it, and stamp your notary stamp.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/16/11 12:42am
Msg #376307

Re: Are you serious?

Actually, I'll take that to the next level, since I saw one today that didn't have any notary "certificate". It just had a signature line for the notary. Naturally, I added my own certificate because certain verbiage is required in my state before we can sign and stamp. (And for any newbies, I had to call my client to be told which type of notarization to use, per my state law.)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/15/11 9:12pm
Msg #376288

Re: Are you serious?

Robert,
He/she was asking specifically about applying the seal.
The seal is not required in Michigan, and more than likely the signings he/she was doing were for Michigan property and the recordable docs would have recorded fine.
Obviously the signing service was not aware that the seal is not required.

It was a perfectly legitimate question.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/15/11 9:59pm
Msg #376297

Re: Are you serious? (unnecessary, Robert)

Robert, is that the way you start out to answer questions from people in any of your classes?

I hope not.

In fact, your answer, well everything but the very last sentence, was informative and professional. Your subject line was far from professional.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/15/11 9:15pm
Msg #376290

Minority Opinion

Granted, not a MI notary and know nothing about MI. However, if 'no seal/just signature' is good enough for MI, then it should be acceptable in any state. It's all about following YOUR state's laws and not what the other 49 states think/say is correct. You might just advise hiring entity of your state's law. Cite chapter & verse.

On the other hand, if you actually have a seal and it's lawful to use it...it's simply easier to just make a habit of using it on all notarized Loan docs to avoid the ruckus.

Reply by bob/IA on 3/15/11 9:42pm
Msg #376293

Re: Minority Opinion

Some companies have docs they want you to stamp but there is no notarial certificate on the doc. In other words you are not notarizing the doc. Whether your state allows this I have no idea. I had one Saturday where they wanted a stamp and I called the title co and explained that I could not notarize this particular doc( ID information, name, DL#, etc)because I was the only one signing it and I can't notarize my own signature. They said that was fine, just sign it and that would do. I have seen this from a few different companies.

Reply by bob/IA on 3/15/11 9:53pm
Msg #376296

disregard my post above

Just reread original post and realized I misunderstood it. Sorry, my post above can be disregarded.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/15/11 10:51pm
Msg #376300

You just need to be consistent

Especially with loan documents. Do the same thing every time, and you can never go wrong.

There are several states where "seal" means the physical impression of some government mandated image, but unless you're in one of those states the term refers only to your actual signature.

Even those states that don't require an official seal will usually allow you to use a stamp that provides your commission info. That's what these folks are looking for - your commission info... If you have such a stamp, apply it to every document on which you notarize signatures. Forget about looking for clues as to whether or not to use it - if you are supposed to notarize, apply the stamp. Just be consistent.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/15/11 11:23pm
Msg #376302

What MikeC/NY said in a great nutshell. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/16/11 2:14am
Msg #376308

I agree, but just to be careful...

Someone out there is bound to take this sentence too literally and /or misinterpret it:

"Do the same thing every time, and you can never go wrong."

For anyone in doubt when it comes to the subject at hand, i.e. whether or not and when to use a stamp when notarizing a document, this is excellent advice, imo. Beyond that, it's another story altogether.

It can create problems for you if you make assumptions about what is "right" just because that's the way you've always seen something done. [I'm not talking about legal issues here. Following our own state laws should always be our first priority.] Different lenders can have their own twist on how their documents address different issues. And you will also see major variations in the preferred way of doing things from one title co to another.

If you only work for a few clients, you're likely to see the same thing over and over again (depending on who THEIR clients are). This just means that that's how THEY do things. The next guy will do things differently - and that's what's "right" for them. So sometimes you CAN go wrong by doing the same thing every time. [But this isn't what MikeC/NY was referring to, of course. This is just me splitting hairs again... ]

BTW, this is something I've wanted to address several times before because of posts I've previously read here by some newish notaries. They seemed to have jumped to conclusions and made assumptions about what is and isn't "right" based on what appears to be limited experience. And by "limited experience" I don't mean limited in terms of number of signings, but in variety and diversity of types of packages and loan originators.

This is just intended as a warning to be careful about making assumptions - and this thread brought it to mind.

Reply by notary365MI on 3/16/11 6:04am
Msg #376309

Re: I agree, but just to be careful...

THANK YOU... THANK YOU... I will be consistent and aware of the need for my seal on all such pages as the forum suggested.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/16/11 2:52pm
Msg #376369

Re: I agree, but just to be careful...

You're correct about making assumptions, but I was only referring to the use of a seal/stamp. Maybe I should have worded that differently to make that clearer.

Reply by BobbiCT on 3/16/11 6:30am
Msg #376311

Just because a state does not require a seal

Just because a state doesn't require a seal, doesn't mean you shouldn't use it. CT doesn't require a seal; however, 99.9% of all notaries use one, either an embosser or a self-inking stamp. It's "tradition" and because of out-of-state recipients comfort level.

When doing a package of documents to the same recipient, I put my seal next to all my notarization blocks. 1. Consistency 2. I don't expect the recipent to know CT law and the "missing" seal would cause one to wonder if I forgot to add it, which leads to unnecessary time wasted on calls. Also, I do not want to waste the recipent's time by forcing him/her to research CT notarial laws.

Personally, either use your seal with every notarization or don't use it at all. Switching on and off only confuses recipients and auditors. The question arises: Did the notary intentionally not use his/her seal OR is this a FORGED notarial certificate and that is why the seal is missing?