Posted by Matham on 3/31/11 1:57pm
Msg #378135

Was I correct?

A friend of mine called me up today to do a notarization. This would have been my third notarization ever.

The document was from Georgia, an affidavit of Domestic Partnership, and required by my friend's partner's employer - Delta Airlines.

The problem was: My friend is in California while his partner is in Georgia for training.

The affidavit needed to be notarized so that their partnership could qualify for Delta's DP program.

The affidavit itself included a list of criteria to which the two signees would agree to - that they are of the same sex, that they are older than 18, that Delta can rescind the insurance policy should they so decide, and so forth. At the end, it asks the two to print their names, list their birthdates, their SS numbers, their signatures, and the date that their domestic partnership began (in California).

And at the very bottom of the affidavit, it said "Notary's Name" followed by a line for the Notary's signature, then below it, a line provided to indicate the Notary's commission expiration date. No further notorial verbage.

Now, I saw this, and I immediately knew that I needed to cross out that verbiage - or lack thereof - and to attach the appropriate loose certificate accordinly, but it was not clear what kind of verbiage they needed. So I asked my friend to go back to Delta for further inquiry - because if they needed a jurat, then they needed a new form to sign in front of me (because they had already signed it) with the addition that his partner needed to appear before me so that I could swear/affirm them both. Or an acknowledgement, which I indicated that probably they could wait until the partner was back to do both at the same time, or do the one now, and wait till the partner got back to do the second acknowledgement.

Delta wanted an acknowledgement. However, Delta made it clear that they did not want any further documents attached to the affidavit, which I told my friend I could not comply with as California Law requires me to cross out the verbiage on the form, as it was not California verbiage, and attach the acknowledgement with the correct verbiage.

But because there was the possibility of doing two separate acknowledgements and two separate loose certificates, I was a little leary of doing this and my friend was adamant that Delta did not want any other forms attached.

I called the National Notary Association's hotline to confer with them, describing the affidavit provided by Delta, and explaining the situation and they also conferred with me that I could do the acknowlegement for the one signer now, and wait until later when the second signer returns to do an acknowledgement for him.

But I also asked whether I could do the acknowledgement for the signer here in California and then if it would be okay if the signer could forward the document(s) to Georgia, where the partner is for the next couple of weeks, so that the partner could have his part notarized in Georgia, and the NNA said that would be fine. I actually thought they would say no, but I wanted to be certain.

So, I told my friend we could do his acknowlegment first, then wait until his partner came back to do a second acknowledgement for him, or wait until his partner got back, and do one at the same time for both of him, or do an acknowledgement for my friend now, and forward the document to his partner in Georgia to complete the notarization process in Georgia by a notary there.

He elected to hold off on the matter as he was upset with Delta's policies (when his partner doesn't have an issue with Delta), but the source of his frustration that holding off on the notarization would delay getting on to his partner's insurance.

But I am wondering - was I right in how I handled this?

Reply by Calnotary on 3/31/11 2:10pm
Msg #378138

Was there any space so you could stamp your "notary ack stamp" not your seal your CA notary ack?

Reply by Matham on 3/31/11 2:13pm
Msg #378140

There was enough room for my jurat stamp, if Delta wanted a jurat, and I have one, but there would not have been enough room for my seal unless I could have sealed it sideways at the top. But I don't have an acknowledgement stamp yet (nor am embosser which I knew I probably needed if I had gone through with it).

Reply by SharonMN on 3/31/11 2:14pm
Msg #378141

Matham, you are completely correct. The person has to appear in front of you in order for you to notarize his signature, so there is no way you could notarize the partner's sig while he was in Georgia.

Agree with CalNotary that since Delta did not want additional documents attached, a good fix would be to print or stamp the notarial certificate language on the form (if room) instead of attaching a loose certificate.

>>>So, I told my friend we could do his acknowlegment first, then wait until his partner came back to do a second acknowledgement for him, or wait until his partner got back, and do one at the same time for both of him, or do an acknowledgement for my friend now, and forward the document to his partner in Georgia to complete the notarization process in Georgia by a notary there.

Reply by Calnotary on 3/31/11 2:20pm
Msg #378143

Maybe there is space for the jurat if a jurat is needed, but jurats has to be signed IN FRONT of the notary. ACK could be signed prior to meeting the notary, but not a jurat. Now you have a dilemma here because the document it's already signed.

Reply by Matham on 3/31/11 2:22pm
Msg #378145

I told him, if it was a jurat, not only did both need to be present, they both needed to sign in front of me and swear/affirm. Delta wanted an acknowledgement performed. But the other still needed to be there.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/31/11 2:46pm
Msg #378148

I don't know if there would be room for the CA ack, but Brenda Stone (tried but cannot find the post to link) had a suggestion a while back that she prints acknowledgment and jurat information on mailing labels to use on forms that do not have the correct notary information pre-printed. Granted TX ack are shorter, but this might be something to try if there is room.

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 3/31/11 2:52pm
Msg #378149

First of all, Matham, I'm very impressed with all your notarial knowledge after being a notary for only a short period of time! I run across long-time notaries all the time who don't have half a clue ... so good for you!

As I understand it, Delta wants an ack. You must use CA verbiage. You gotta do a loose-leaf (or if you had an ack stamp you could use that, but you don't and even if you did, it doesn't sound like there's room for it). Delta won't allow a loose leaf. I don't know what the heck you're going to do - unless the back of the document is blank or has enough blank space - in which case you could type or handwrite the CA ack verbiage on the back and stamp. Then write on the front: CA acknowledgment on back; initial or sign and date. Or find a huge sticky label, type the ack on that in tiny type and stick to the back (or is their room on front for that?) The worst that can happen is Delta can reject it, but then you're right back where you started ....

As for the partner, send the doc to him for a GA notary to do ....

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/31/11 5:09pm
Msg #378175

Since it just requires an ack (and as long as it's not time-sensitive), I would wait for the partner to get back from training and notarize both signatures at the same time. Why should your friend spend the money overnighting it to GA?

As for the incorrect verbiage, you really don't have any choice. Regardless of what Delta wants, there has to be CA-compliant verbiage. I like the idea of printing it on a mailing label and affixing it, if you can room for it; if not the suggestion about using the back of the page sounds reasonable to me (I've seen more than one mortgage where the notary block was on a separate page). The worst Delta could do in that case is bounce the document, and at that point your friend would have to have a discussion with them about proper notarization under CA law (you could help by providing copies of the relevant passages from the CA handbook).

Just a thought - since the document as printed is clearly not ready for notarization, the venue is probably missing as well. Don't forget to add that....

Reply by JAM/CA on 3/31/11 7:52pm
Msg #378208

See if Delta will allow the signers to copy the document onto legal size paper. If so, then you have room for the California verbiage. If not, show Delta the law as stated in our handbook.