Posted by James Dawson on 3/12/11 1:05pm Msg #375971
what would you do?
Lender just calls me and want's me to sign Docs today 3/12 Docs are dated 3/14 Opinions welcomed.
Reply by Yoli/CA on 3/12/11 1:14pm Msg #375972
So long as your notarizations are the date of signing, doesn't matter what other date rest of docs have. JMHO
Reply by OR on 3/12/11 1:26pm Msg #375973
Re: Yes just like Yoli
What the pre dated doc's say doesn't matter to me. What I notarize does. It gets the day we sign. So does the signature line date that I notarize
Reply by walthtz on 3/14/11 9:24am Msg #376086
Re: Yes just like Yoli
I have to differ on your answer. How can one Notarize the docs before they are drawn up? That is like asking the Notary to pre-date the transaction & we all know that we are not allowed to that either. Walt in NJ.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 1:40pm Msg #375974
The problem for me is I have done it both ways...signed before date on Docs,..TC tells me to go back out, wrong date. Other times, no problem....I want to get paid and not told I didn't follow instructions. There is a reason they (TC) scheduled signing for 3/14..and I want them to tell me it's O K. Although, I'm started to feel for the borrowers who want to sign today.
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/12/11 1:44pm Msg #375975
Okay...I'm confused...again...what else is new
You got a call from the lender to sign today...
You say "There is a reason they (TC) scheduled signing for 3/14"
Was this already scheduled with you for Monday and lender's changing the signing date?
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 1:50pm Msg #375978
Re: Okay...I'm confused...again...what else is new
yes
Reply by Teresa/FL on 3/12/11 1:46pm Msg #375976
Do you have the request in writing from the lender?
If so, I would go ahead and do it.
As long as they understand my notarizations will show the actual signing date and they guarantee I will be paid, in writing, I would be happy to accommodate them.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 1:52pm Msg #375979
Re: Do you have the request in writing from the lender?
nothing in writing and the lender says she can't guarantee I'll be paid.
Reply by Teresa/FL on 3/12/11 2:10pm Msg #375982
Is she actually asking you to pre-date for Monday?
With no guarantee of payment and understanding that notarizations must show actual date signed, I would decline.
I would email the TC regarding this request and my inability to fulfill it according to current notary statutes. They should be made aware of their client's illegal request and it will also serve to CYA.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 2:13pm Msg #375984
No that's not it, just want to change appt date to sign
without TC Okay.
Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/12/11 2:33pm Msg #375988
If he lender is unwilling to put it in writting, I would go
with the date on your received confirmation as the date that the signing should take place. That way you have written backup as to your instructions. If the lender wants to modify (move up) the closing date, they would have to put that in writing if it were me. Especially since you seem to have some concern about being paid if you close prior to the original scheduled date. MHO
Reply by Moneyman/TX on 3/12/11 2:37pm Msg #375989
Didn't see James last post .....
Msg #375986
Reply by jba/fl on 3/12/11 6:51pm Msg #376000
Man - this girl is just stuck! Poor thing! n/m
Reply by Ryan Bartee on 3/13/11 11:58am Msg #376021
Re: If he lender is unwilling to put it in writting, I would go
HI IM IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW SOME INOVATIVE IDEALS ON HOW TO INCRESE MY BUSINESS PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL ME @ [e-mail address] , 2054010276
Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/12/11 1:48pm Msg #375977
I would tell the lender that the docs are dated for the 14th, and if you went out today you would only be able to date your notary certificates for todays date, it would be illegal to do anything else. Tell them they have the option of sending you new docs with the correct date or waiting until the 14th to do the signing (if they still want you to go out today with the predated docs let them know that if the TC does not accept the docs because of the date and you have to go back out again then there will be another full fee - and get their confirmation in writing.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 1:53pm Msg #375980
Yea, she's trying to pressure me by say stuff like, " Sooo, you don't want to go out today huh?
Reply by mwm143 on 3/12/11 2:07pm Msg #375981
If lender won't guarantee you'll be paid, do what the hiring
party instructed. I had a split signing once on a Thursday. The docs were dated for Friday, the day of the second portion. It was a huge mess for the TC with the DOT having been predated by my notarization. They wanted me to sign and have notarized a document stating I had actually witnessed the signing on Friday and the borrower had dated the docs incorrectly. I told her to dream on sister! I was paid and in checking the county records, the document was recorded without any changes or addendums.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 2:11pm Msg #375983
Re: If lender won't guarantee you'll be paid, do what the hiring
ike I said, I know it can be done but what does the hiring party (who I can't get in contact with) want.
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/12/11 2:18pm Msg #375985
Here's something to consider too...
Did something come up with the borrowers that they can't sign on Monday and this loan is facing a rate-lock issue if it's not signed? Maybe that's why lender jumped in on this - they called the LO..
I'd call the borrower to confirm they're aware of the change in appointment and make sure they're available. I'd also be calling the off-hours number for my hiring party and filling them in on what's going on
If you can't reach hiring party, are they a good enough client that you can take the chance that they'll pay you? Make sure you get EVERYTHING in writing from the lender - since the lender made this call, title *should* honor it. And I agree with Sylvia - let lender know you'll use today's date and if package is kicked back because of it then 2 fees will be due and payable.
You were bored today anyway, right?...
Reply by James Dawson on 3/12/11 2:28pm Msg #375986
O K here's the deal..I had
the lender send me an email confirming THEY changed the signing appt time and date and CC the TC....HERE I GO.......Thanks all......
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/12/11 6:06pm Msg #375994
misunderstanding or loss of accountability?
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this is a Wells Fargo package. I've seen a good number of them - sent directly to borrowers - where their instructions clearly say to find a notary and have them signed and notarized "ON OR BEFORE" such and such a date (which matches the document date, which is in the future). I'm not aware of any regulation that says the document date can't be a future date. As long as we do our certificates accurately, I don't see why it should be of concern to anyone but the lender, since they dated the docs - and many times I've known it to not be a problem. But people get fixated on certain things, right or wrong, and won't budge.
As I indicated, I've done a good number of those with no repercussions whatsoever. However, I had one last fall from a signing service (last minute, after hours, of course) and ended up being stiffed, apparently because title said docs couldn't be "pre-dated". I don't think they ever bothered to check with the lender (Wells Fargo again) - and the ss didn't want to risk losing that tc as a client so they didn't push it.
Needless to say, I was not thrilled, but in that case, I decided to not make an issue of it - partly because I didn't find out that they weren't going to pay me until well after the fact. At the time, I felt it wasn't worth costing me a decent client, but I'm not sure I made the right decision.
If I'm wrong about this, I'd sure like to see some reference that explains why this is a problem. (BTW, I believe the documents were dated the date they expected to fund.) And is it just me, or doesn't it make sense that a company should have SOME responsibility for the documents they send out? In this instance, everyone saw the documents before I did or had the opportunity to do so. Neither the lender, tc or ss said anything about the date on the docs and I wasn't the one who scheduled the appointment for that day. While I'm with those who say we should check documents before going to the appointment and do whatever possible to anticipate problems, I feel something is wrong when some others no longer take responsibility for their own work and hold us accountable for their mistakes.
This is something that's been on my mind for a while, so thanks, James for giving me the opportunity to get it off my chest. End of rant...
Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/12/11 5:10pm Msg #375993
Re: If lender won't guarantee you'll be paid, do what the hiring
As far as recording is concerned, in most cases it really doesn't matter whether the document date and the notarization date are the same. I've notarized acknowledgments on mortgages a year after the mortgage was signed, and the county clerk could have cared less - the signer is simply acknowledging before me today that they actually signed the document at some point in time, and that's all you need. I am not required to witness them actually signing the document when taking an acknowledgment. Usually, it's an anal-retentive lender who insists that the dates have to match....
Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/12/11 4:58pm Msg #375992
As long as they're not expecting you to date your notarizations done today as if they were done on 3/14, I don't see a problem here. The document dates are their concern, the notarization dates are your concern, and sometimes the twain just don't meet....
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/12/11 6:07pm Msg #375995
I would do it. As long as your certs are right! n/m
Reply by BrendaTx on 3/12/11 6:11pm Msg #375996
Without payment guarantee, that's different.
I'd have to weigh that out.
Reply by jba/fl on 3/12/11 6:47pm Msg #375997
If they met my fee, get it signed. No brainer. n/m
Reply by jba/fl on 3/12/11 6:50pm Msg #375999
Ok - why not put all pertinent info in one post
Now, I have to make amendments.
Depending on who is asking, in writing, new confirmation reflecting date of signing, etc., 1st response stands.
Reply by LKT/CA on 3/12/11 7:29pm Msg #376002
I did a signing where docs were dated a few days into the future. I brought it to the attention of the broker - the signing was in his office - he double checked with the lender and said "It's a go, okay to get them signed". The package was rejected. The broker told me that the lender told him the investors did not approve, therefore, it was a re-sign and I was paid full fees for both.
Reply by Lavergne Manuel on 3/12/11 9:17pm Msg #376006
I believe the rule on this is you can notarize on the date or before but not after.
Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/12/11 10:22pm Msg #376007
"The Rule?" And whose rule would that be? I've found there to be very few absolutes in this business...
Reply by Lavergne Manuel on 3/13/11 12:51pm Msg #376032
The rule came from Bruce Johnson who offers a Video Online Course in 46 States which one of the States is your state of California.
Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/13/11 8:33am Msg #376015
"I believe the rule on this is you can notarize on the date or before but not after."
IMO this isn't quite accurate - if a document is dated yesterday I can still notarize it today... document dates are irrelevant as long as our certs states the actual date the signer appeared in front of us.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/13/11 1:32am Msg #376012
Okay it's done borrower happy, now let's see
If I get paid, still haven't gotten approval from TC to change signing appointment. The only "other" time I've done this, I had to go back out to re-sign ( LKT made me remember) and I got paid for both! We'll see. Thanks for the variety of opinions although my main concern was adhering to the confirmation instructions, that's the bottom line.
Reply by jba/fl on 3/13/11 4:48am Msg #376013
Re: Okay it's done borrower happy, now let's see
"my main concern was adhering to the confirmation instructions, that's the bottom line."
But, didn't you say that the confirmation says Monday? Or did I miss where you got it in writing for the change from the tc? Was the tc the hiring party?
Reply by Ryan Bartee on 3/13/11 11:58am Msg #376022
Re: Okay it's done borrower happy, now let's see
HI IM IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW SOME INOVATIVE IDEALS ON HOW TO INCRESE MY BUSINESS PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL ME @ [e-mail address] , 2054010276
Reply by bob/IA on 3/13/11 12:53pm Msg #376033
Re: Okay it's done borrower happy, now let's see
Ryan, posting this question to every thread is a little annoying. The use of capital letters on this site indicates shouting, is harder to read and also rather annoying. What you want, I think, are innovative ideas not ideals. Use the orange search button to look for marketing ideas.
Reply by James Dawson on 3/13/11 2:35pm Msg #376044
No JBA, you didn't miss anything...I had the lender
send me an email confirming THEY changed the signing appt time and date and CC the TC....
