Posted by nobhill on 5/14/11 8:04pm
Msg #383217

Good Advice Not To Give Out Business Secrets

I don't know about other notaries, but I find myself continually deluged with people interested in what I do because they want their own mobile notary business. They want to know such things as how much money I make, how I get clients, what you need to know to be a Notary Public. I've had people at law offices actually tell me they would be my competition in a few months.

For the aforementioned reasons, it's real good advice not to get people excited over your business model unless they're a good friend or want a business partnership. I was wondering why a guy at a local estate store today was trying to get as much information out of me. After significant time and discussion, he admitted at the end he as interested in my training him. Maybe it was just a passing thought for him and he won't do it, but he was very excited over my business model.

Next time I won't allow myself be baited to give out information about how much I love what I do.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/14/11 9:03pm
Msg #383218

About this "competition" thing.....

People do business with someone for two reasons and two reasons ONLY: They like them and they trust them. The dollar amount is not always the bottom line for some, myself included. Many will spend the time and the gas to dry across town to a clean, well managed, well stocked store than to patronize the exact same store that's located around the corner from them, but is junky, empty and poorly run. The McDonalds around the corner from me always overcooks the fries while the McDonald's that's 3 miles from me has perfect fries - never overcooked. So when I want fries, I drive 3 miles to the other Mickey D's.

As far as competition goes in the Notary business - just because you are a Notary and my neighbor, we are not necessarily each others competition because there are so many variations in our schedules, the areas we cover, our travel fee, when are where we're willing to travel, etc.

For example:

I'm willing to Notarize at midnight - maybe you're not.
I'm available seven days a week, while you want your Friday nights and weekends off.
I'd notarize before work - at 4 am - would you?
You may only wish to cover 2 counties while I cover 4.
I may be ready at the drop of a hat while you need at least 2 hours notice.

So when someone "threatens" that they'll be your competition - just laugh (not a chuckle, but a guffaw!!)

Reply by Julie/MI on 5/14/11 9:22pm
Msg #383220

Pshaw...it's all about supply and demand

I respectfully disagree with you LKT.

Way back, I was the only notary in my county listed on the old NASA or NNA site and I could name my price and my bank account was filled with milk and honey.

I don't know about the first poster, but I don't do general notary work and my determination is made on loan closings only.

Many assume this is like a Pampered Chef or Amway, however, this is not multi level marketing and you would be training your competition.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/14/11 9:54pm
Msg #383222

Re: Pshaw...it's all about supply and demand

<<<.....I don't do general notary work and my determination is made on loan closing>>>>

Ok, your position of supply and demand does make sense for loan closings. My determination was based on the OP's post which sounded to me like a general notary appointment - which I do a lot more of than loan signings.


<<<.....you would be training your competition.>>>

To do what? Undercut me and work at a loss instead of a profit? If another Notary is willing to complete an edoc FHA refi, 200 pages per set, full package fax backs, drive 70 miles one way, at 9pm, while the borrower sits and reads every page word for word, for $65, that they'll receive (if at all) in 90 days - hey, they can GO FOR IT!! Their loss, not mine.

Reply by Alz on 5/16/11 11:59am
Msg #383283

Very well stated. I personally do not concern myself

with "so called competitors", even though they exist and I know who they are.

It is a given that we are all in the same industry, but operate our businesses uniquely, i.e. strategies, business model, fees, clients, etc. I liken it to DNA and fingerprints. It cannot be duplicated.

Lastly, I don't mind sharing information because I know that the majority of folks will implement the information differently.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/14/11 9:34pm
Msg #383221

I get asked these questions a lot... but I'm honest with them. I tell them that CA has the strictest notary laws in the country. It's expensive and time consuming to even become a notary in this state, up to and including TWO separate background checks (DOJ and FBI). Then, once you have your commission, there's no guarantee that you'll get work... in fact, many of the good companies out there won't even touch you unless you've been doing loan signings for at least 18-24 months. Newbies get stuck with the companies that prey on them and have a tough time breaking in. General notary work is good, if you can get it... but it isn't a full-time gig.

I tell them that there's a reason that California has lost over 1/3 (now nearly half) of its' notaries in the last 2-3 years.

I also remind them that I own two businesses... my Notary business as well as my Virtual Assistant business.... and if they think they can live off the income as a notary, all the power to them, but in the end, they will likely lose money for several years.

More than anything, I hear from people who said they *used* to be a notary but let their commission expire because they didn't make the money they "were promised" in their classes and quickly gave up. Those of us in SoCal, especially, know about those radio commercials that insinuated we could earn over $100K a year. People remember hearing those commercials and think we're all wealthy. Ha! There's a very good reason I drive a 12 year old Honda Civic.

Reply by topflyt on 5/15/11 12:26am
Msg #383223

It's made of gold?

Reply by JanelWI on 5/15/11 6:02am
Msg #383224

In WI, it is not as difficult as CA; I get asked all the time because people say what a cool job it is. So, I am honest with them; while it is a cool job this is not something you just decide to do one day because it sounds cool to do. You can be in love with the idea of being self employed; but the reality is very different from the "idea", so you really better "love" what you do. That drive and passion is what most definitely gets you through along with research and having a good plan for success.

The Typical Song and Dance of the Inquisitive....

After I go through some particulars of what it takes, and if I am at a closing the minute I pull out that "stack" of papers they are like, "We have to go through all of those?" So I see right there their little "make something for nothing, just point and sign with a smile" bubble burst, and after I go through each document, they are like, "I don't think I have the patience for this, that is a lot of papers, do you go through this every time?" Then, I know right there my competition just fizzled out before my eyes.

Oops!, Reality Sets In.......

When I am asked what I did to get this job because it sounds cool and interesting, I tell them, "O.k., sit down after we are done and read your entire loan package, and then decide after that if this is something you want to do". It may not cost much in WI to become a notary, but that is really the smallest part of what we actually do.

Then, expect to work hard, at varying hours, no vacation pay, no sick leave, no insurance unless you can afford to pay the premium yourself so hopefully the hubby or wife has insurance through his/her work; no unemployment for self employed people if you are a sole proprietor or partnership if the business doesn't work out, and no guarantee the phone is going to ring. Be sure to look at what your collaterals will cost; you will most likely be the marketer, accounts payable, receivables and collections for your business, website designer in most cases, and that is just scratching the surface at best.

Now, it's Down to Just a Side Business..........

Then they say, "Well, I was just thinking of doing this for extra money on the side" I gently retort, "Most of the above still applies if you want to make any extra money on the side". Then they ask, "Where do you start?", I tell them with research. "What, in your mind does a mobile notary or mobile signing agent mean to you, and what do they actually have to do?". Start there, and then really ask yourself, "Is this the right fit for me, my family, and my bottom line?".

On a Social Awareness and Responsibility Note.....

At the end of the day, you get out what you put in. The NNA can polish the facts and they may look good from far away, but like most things; once you get up close, that luster fades. So, I tell the truth to people who ask, I recommend places to go and read for more information, and I stress that it takes years to build up a good reputation as a loan signer, side business or not. There are plenty of sharks out there looking for new meat; prepare to be nibbled on and under payed. It is also a free market and there is plenty of competition as well. But, if you have that trapped entrepreneur inside just waiting to get out; go for it, but do your homework. It can be a rewarding, interesting, and a very cool job, but the safety net is the one you build for yourself, and without a good plan and research, even just for extra money; and if you are not thinking about the return on your investment anywhere in there, please! for the signing veterans or the others working the ladder, don't even think of starting yet! It is called the time value of money, and it is important!

Speaking of that "thinking" thing........I tell all who ask that it is vital to slow down and think about how their decisions will impact not only themselves, but others. "If I am cut out for this business, how can I stand out, and what can I bring to it? What can I do to make it better? or am I just there to nibble on the leftovers nobody wants?" or worse, "Am I just there.....blech!". The point is, the concept of going into business to just "get mine" I believe, is going away. More and more people are starting to realize now more than ever the impact of long held beliefs or decisions that turned out to not be so good in the long run. In this industry, who wants to be part of what diminishes or devalues the importance of our role and what we do? I certainly don't. I went into this wanting to raise the level of integrity, awareness, appreciation and value of what we do. All I ask people to do, when they ask about this industry, is to slow down and "think" about these aspects on the way to finding what their true passion in life is; by all means, go for it! throw the irons in the fire! But be considerate, and spare the rest of us as much as you can from having to manage the bad debris of poor or hasty decision making because this industry "sounds cool" to do. Then perhaps all these redundant, yet contradictory instructions from SS's and some title companies will begin to end!:-)

Long, I know, but my opinion non the less:-)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/15/11 11:13pm
Msg #383243

Excellent post, Janel!!

I can only think of two things to add. First, I always emphasize the liability that goes with the territory and the fact that business has been on a downward spiral and that the long-term trends are also likely down. (Interest rates are a great predictor, with an inverse relationship - and they will eventually trend back up, as they are artificially low now due to the Fed's efforts to stimulate the economy.)

Secondly - and this is mostly semantics - I never refer to what I do as a "job", but as a business that I own. Clearly, Janel gets the difference, or she wouldn't have been so effective at explaining the risks. However, I suspect that most of those folks who are looking to make some easy money have more of an employee mentality and are thinking that someone is going to "hire" them to do this work. When I first heard about this years before I decided to get involved myself, I confess I thought it was something like temp work, where you were "employed" by an agency. As we know, and as was expressed so well in the above post, They're not even in the same ballpark. I think that little difference in labeling can help get that idea across - as well as focusing on the risks and responsibilities.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 5/16/11 4:31am
Msg #383247

Not to mention

the erratic hours and that the jobs are at times convenient for the borrowers, not for you. That the majority of your assignments will be at the time you want to either fix dinner or eat dinner and that regular meals with your family are a thing of the past. I also tell them that every lender's docs are different and that every lender has different requirements; initial all pages, don't initial any pages that don't have initial lines, some require black ink or they won't fund, some want blue, some require you to fax back some or all of the pages, some have RTC and some don't and if you don't know the difference they probably won't be calling you back. Most people think that we get paid mileage and for the time spent. When I tell them that it is a flat fee that has to cover all my expenses, including car expenses, all of a sudden it does not sound like the "perfect way to make some extra money".

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/15/11 6:22am
Msg #383225

Here is what I tell people

As most on here know, I do not do loan signings. However, I do perform a great deal of weddings and I am a state approved notary instructor.

I often get asked by people wanting to look for easy money, how much I make and how to go about starting a notary business. I may be blunt, but I tell them like it is. This is a state that is oversaturated with notaries. There is a lot of material to learn, a lot of self study required, and virtually unlimited liability. I make it clear to my students that this is a public service position, and that they should not expect to get rich from it. I discourage students from getting involved in the loan signing profession, because it requires a lot of overhead costs and the fees being offered are low. In an oversaturated area like Tampa, you would be operating at a loss. There's just no point.

I had one student that was really hoping she could get rich quick as a notary. At one point in our conversation she actually said she might start teaching classes. This was a woman who had just taken my class and wasn't even a notary yet. I literally laughed. It took a lot of time and work to become one of Florida's 17 state approved instructors. The same girl insisted that she could male a lot of money as a Trusted Enrollment Agent. More power to her. I told her what I tell everyone: notaries were established as public servants. If it was meant to be a highly paid position we would be government salaried.

Those of you on this board who are making a decent living as a signing agent could certainly testify as to the time and effort FHA went into starting your business. You know as well as I do that this is not a "get rich quick" career. We are not Mary Kay or Avon... We are public officials. We have a lot of responsibilities and a lot of liability as do any other public officials. So the next time someone wants to know about your line of work, be honest. Tell them that it's an oversaturated business, that you are not making half of what you were making 5 years ago, that even with your many years experience you can barely keep afloat, and that it takes a lot of training and startup costs to get involved.

Notary work is not a walk in the park. The public thinks there is nothing to it. School them.

Reply by Victoria_NJ on 5/16/11 11:33am
Msg #383276

I've trained my "competition"

Throughout the years I have trained many people in the title industry, which included teaching notary closers how to close loans.

Eventually people move on for whatever reason. Some became friendly competitors, that I could still use as back up if need be. I happen to have quite loyal clients, so I never feared anyone trying to "steal my business." And, whenever I called a past employee for a closing, they were happy to do it because, well, money is money.

As in any self-employment business, you work the hours you chose or your clients choose.

If you were a restaurant, serving breakfast, and made the most delicious muffins in the world, but yet people asked you for sliced white bread toast and you didn't have the toast, doesn't matter how good your muffins are, the customer wants sliced white bread toast. As the business owner, you have to decide if you are going to please your customers by adding sliced white bread toast or not.

If you only want to work a couple hours a day between 9 am and noon, but you have closing requests for other times, you have to decide if you want to work those hours or not.

As business owners, I always say that just means we are the guys who get to clean the toilets when no one else will. It ain't always easy, but it is what we have chosen to do.

If someone wants to become a notary that closes real estate loans, just ask them if they are prepared to be sued at any time for any reason and if they understand the seriousness of the business.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/16/11 12:27pm
Msg #383286

Re: I've trained my "competition"

>>>If someone wants to become a notary that closes real estate loans, just ask them if they are prepared to be sued at any time for any reason and if they understand the seriousness of the business.<<<

Notaries can get sued for general notary work too, not just real estate closings. Notary work in general has a lot of liability. You need to have a lot of knowledge and you need to be willing to do the research yourself, because most of the time the state doesn't give you much to go on. Most notaries are not so diligent. The notary applicants who take my class do so because they really want to know what they are doing - otherwise they would do the whole thing online like most do here in Florida.

But people don't think about these consequences. Their boss says "I want you to become a notary". The person takes the online class, gets their "stamp", and figures that as long as they know how to sign their name and affix a stamp, that is all there is too it. Stamp what your boss puts in front of you. These notaries just don't have a clue.

I get calls all the time from people who say they want to become a notary so they can perform their daughter's wedding. I tell them the truth... you will have a lot of liability and a lot of responsibility as a notary. If you just want to do it so you can perform one wedding - get ordained online and call it a day. A notary commission is not a novelty. It *should* be something that requires a lot of work, patience and knowledge. Getting a commission easy and using it one time is an abuse of our very weak system.