Posted by Aurora Johnson Benchmark Notary Services on 5/27/11 9:32pm
Msg #384569

In the Note Section of Closing Docs...

sometimes there is a place where it says "Witness the Hand(s) and Seal(s) of the Undersigned" with a borrowers signature line and then (seal) next to it. My question concerns what to do when there is no room next to the word (seal) to actually put a seal. (Right up against the edge of the document) Would it be ok to put your seal underneath, or go ahead and put your seal as close as you can while getting all of your seal within the document. I read in some training material that you should never put your seal over top of signatures or other wording and that you should attach a separate acknowledgement form, but my gosh what do you do when there seems to be bunches of pages like this with no room for a seal without sealing over top of something?
I hope you understand my question.
Thanks
Aurora

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/27/11 9:37pm
Msg #384570

Aurora
Ignore that, it is archaic wording dating back to the days when individuals used to have personal seals.

The only place you have to put your seal is on the notary certificate.

Reply by Aurora Johnson Benchmark Notary Services on 5/27/11 9:58pm
Msg #384571

Good to know thank you

Reply by janCA on 5/28/11 4:49pm
Msg #384600

Signatures on "Notes" are not notarized.

Or at least I've never seen this.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/28/11 5:13pm
Msg #384601

Re: Signatures on "Notes" are not notarized.

Aurora was confused as next to the place for the borrowers signature it had "seal"
I have seen it a lot on documents and it is just archaic wording going back to the days when individuals had their own seals which they would use next to their signatures.

Reply by John E. Rogers on 5/28/11 5:16pm
Msg #384602

Good question; took me a while to figure this one out but Title co's and State Bar/Secty of State's offices think it it is for handicapped persons who use a seal due to inability to write. I ignore these signature line seals and place notary seal by Notary certification.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/28/11 6:28pm
Msg #384605

Going to be snippety here...

...if this is the level of expertise that is the "Benchmark," we're all in trouble. This s not even signing agent expertise, this is simple notary public stuff.

I don't think "seal" following a signature is necessarily archaic, though its roots certainly are ancient. I don't have time to look it up right now, but I have the vague recollection from contracts law that it imposes on the signator some form of greater obligation than an unsealed signature. Maybe it extends the statute of limitations for bringing an action on the document? Not sure, and am going out the door, so I won't be sure before the evening is out.

Two things I <am> sure of, though. 1) The notary does not put his/her/its seal there. And 2) A competent notary should know this.

Reply by HisHughness on 5/28/11 6:41pm
Msg #384606

Okay, had time. Here's the skinny on seals (not Team 6)...

***In those jurisdictions that that haven’t abolished the distinction, whether or not a contract is under seal can have implications in two contexts.

First, a sealed contract is binding absent consideration, or at least creates a rebuttable presumption of consideration. But if under the law of a given state a contract is at risk of being held unenforceable for lack of consideration, making the contract one under seal probably wouldn’t be the safest fix, even if the law governing the contract acknowledges the distinction between sealed and unsealed instruments. Instead, you might want to restructure the transaction so as to provide for consideration; see MSCD 2.70.

Also, seals may be important in the context of statutes of limitations. The District of Columbia, for example, has a twelve-year statute of limitations for actions brought on “instruments under seal” as compared with the three-year statute for ordinary contracts. But one could question the priorities of any drafter who on that basis elects to inflict on a contract the utterly quaint indicia of a contract under seal.***

For the whole 9 yards, see http://www.adamsdrafting.com/2008/01/11/contracts-under-seal/

If someone tries to put a notary seal next to a signature seal, find another notary.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/28/11 8:29pm
Msg #384608

I understood it was for a corporate seal, if the signatory

was signing as a corporate officer.

When asked about it by borrowers, I clap and do my excellent impression of a seal - aaurrrh aaurrrrhh - then talk about the corporate seal...

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/28/11 8:31pm
Msg #384609

Hugh's probably right, as usual, but I bet I get more

giggles.