Posted by Jodith/WA on 5/2/11 11:53am
Msg #381895

Interesting case - what would you do?

I had a couple of folks come down from Canada today to sign some paperwork for a condo they're buying in Hawaii. Everything went smoothly until I got to the Acknowledgment. The names listed on it were Jim (NMN) Doe and Jane (NMN) Doe. First time I've run across that. The problem is that they definitely had middle names. As a matter of fact, she had 3 middle names.

I tried to call the escrow company (no lender, they were paying cash), but they're in Hawaii and wouldn't be open for a few hours.

My solution was to cross through the (NMN) and have both parties initial, and notarized that way. I cautioned them to call the Escrow company before returning the docs and make sure it would be recordable the way we did it. Otherwise, the Escrow company could e-mail new signature sheets with the corrected names and they could come back for a 2nd signing.

Nice people. They were very understanding of the issue.

Did I handle that well? Should I have done something else? This is in Washington State, btw.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 5/2/11 12:02pm
Msg #381898

Too messy

I would have crossed through the whole thing and added my own certificate.

JMHO

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/2/11 12:13pm
Msg #381906

"and added my own certificate"

Which can get detached and lost....

The correction is a small one and won't be messy at all - as long as your notary laws allow you to cross out and initial in your certs it should be fine.

The only problem will be if title is vested with the NMN and they get nitpickety about it. In a reasonable world it's fine...

Reply by CT_Notary on 5/2/11 12:07pm
Msg #381905

Don't believe this should have been a problem. Every Nancy Ann Elizabeth Doe is a Nancy Doe, and can be notarized as Nancy Doe. I would notarize that.

Problem is when docs have Nancy Ann Elizabeth Doe and ID is only for Nancy Doe. Your Nancy Doe can not prove that she is the person that has the additional names. I would not be able to notarize that.

If they actually wrote in "no middle name," that would be an issue, as you know that the person before you has additional names! I too would have lined out the untrue "no middle name" and initialled.

Let us know what title says!

Reply by James Dawson on 5/2/11 12:45pm
Msg #381909

The lesson in this one whether it flies or not is ALWAYS make certain you have a contact either TC or Lender in the future so you can do exactly what they want. It is impossible to 2nd guess what someone else wants without "instructions".

Don't make those decisions (IMO), take the risk out of a possible failed signing because of your actions.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/2/11 12:50pm
Msg #381910

James, she said the names in the acknowledgements contained middle names - when it comes to the contents of the notarial cert (ack or jurat) it most certainly IS up to her to make those decisions based solely on the laws of her state.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/2/11 12:51pm
Msg #381911

Woops...sorry again

Unless she doesn't mean the notarial cert when she says "acknowledgement" - then we have a whole different discussion...

Reply by James Dawson on 5/2/11 1:18pm
Msg #381912

.....>>>>>>>Everything went smoothly until I got to the Acknowledgment. The names listed on it were Jim (NMN) Doe and Jane (NMN) Doe. <<<<<

I read (NMN) = no middle initial. ID Has MN = more is better (in Calif) I would ID them in my Journal with MN

I don't see anything wrong with it personally. If the situation was reversed ID (NMN) BUT ACK/DOCS didn't have it then there is a problem. In any case although we know TC messes up, they ought to know what they want is my point.

Reply by Jodith/WA on 5/2/11 2:25pm
Msg #381921

Sorry I wasn't clear. Both the signatures on the deed and the notarial certificate were John (NMN) Doe.

To me, specifying no middle name means there is no middle name, not that there isn't a *known* middle name. If it's not known, then generally nothing is entered there. By specifically saying (NMN), then it is being specified there is no middle name, so the id's don't match the names on the documents.

At least, that's my reading of it. Evidently, that's title's too, since they're redoing the docs with the complete names.

Reply by Jodith/WA on 5/2/11 2:21pm
Msg #381920

Heard back from the signers. Title is redoing the signature and cert pages with full names and sending them again. They'll have to cross the border again to get those notarized.

In this case, this wasn't a signing that came from the title company or signing agency. These were folks buying something out of state and title company there said, "get these notarized by a US notary". Being so close to the border, I get a fair few of these, especially since so many Canadians are buying in the US while our prices are deflated. So, unfortunately, I had no contact names with the title company, only what the signers brought with them.

If the signatures had just been as John Doe and Jane Doe, I would have notarized as is with no issue. The NMN threw me because they obviously did have middle names, and I was uncomfortable notarizing on that basis. I tend to go with my gut on issues like that. I'd rather refuse to notarize than fraudulently notarize signatures.

I appreciate all the comments. I always learn so much here and am grateful for all the years of experience I can tap into.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/3/11 3:39pm
Msg #382024

I think you did the right thing, Jodith. The fact that "NMN" was proactively specified raises questions. As I posted elsewhere, I've run into too many situations with family members named after each other or with same names as in-laws, etc. to just ignore something like that. I probably would have done the same thing, i.e. crossed it out and initialed it, then proceeded with the notarization. Of course, in California, we sign under penalty of perjury that everything in our notary certificate is true, so knowing that to not be the case, I couldn't have just left it as is.

As far as not being able to contact title, only thing I can think to do would be to leave an extra business card for the signers to return with the documents, in case they have any questions for you. Glad to hear it all worked out in the end.

Reply by Jodith/WA on 5/5/11 7:16pm
Msg #382304


Thanks Janet.

I resigned them yesterday morning. Only charged them the travel fee, not for renotarizing. They requested some extra business cards to give out to friends because they were pleased with my diligence.