Posted by sealed/CA on 5/6/11 7:42pm
Msg #382429

Lining through plurals on Acknowledgment

Just thought I'd throw this out there. Last week I had a notarization that included specific instructions for the notary. The instructions stated that the recorder in WA would no longer record documents that had anything lined through on the acknowledgement certificate. It also had an example of a fully executed one. It was untouched. No circles, lines, just filled it where need be.
I wish that I could remember the exact wording that was used, but I took it to mean that they did not accept acknowledgements that were lined through to make it more specific to who signed the doc. ie: his/her/their. Some notaries will circle the correct capacity, and some line through the incorrect ones.
Anyone else ever see anything like this?

Reply by sealed/CA on 5/6/11 7:57pm
Msg #382431

They way the instructions were worded, I was led to believe that it did not just mean correcting the venue.
Perhaps there are some WA notaries out there that have seen these instructions before.

Reply by jfs/IL on 5/6/11 8:40pm
Msg #382434

I never line thru anything on a certificate because once it is filled out, it's self explanitory.
So why bother to doctor it up?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/6/11 9:09pm
Msg #382442

"So why bother to doctor it up?"

Because just because it's filled out in advance by someone else doesn't mean it's filled out correctly? It's up to the notary to make sure if it's correct and, if it's not, then to MAKE it correct - or attach a compliant cert.

Reply by dickb/wi on 5/7/11 2:24pm
Msg #382517

Re: "So why bother to doctor it up?"

you are correct linda....when will Notaries Public learn that the Notary block on a document is the realm of the Notary and no one else.....although it is on a document it is not a part of that document and in fact is a document unto itself......i continually modify notary blocks that have been filled out, most often "husband and wife"---"a single person"--"who took title as"...you grt the picture.....there is no way with out being in the recorders office at that time that i can sustain that capacity....a notary block is the notaries testimony under oath that what is in that notary block is true......only i can enter the information that i know is true....if it is to filled out i draw a line through it and attach a wi compliant cert......a good case in point is the ca cert that say i swear under some ca law etcwhich i strike in its entirety and have never had one returned.........jmho....

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/6/11 9:10pm
Msg #382443

It's not "doctoring," at least in my state. I have a friend

named Gary Lynn.

Can you tell with any certainty whether Gary's a man or woman?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/6/11 11:56pm
Msg #382449

Re: It's not "doctoring," at least in my state. I have a friend

Great point. Not only that, it's not uncommon for a document with two signatures to be notarized by two different notaries - the good old "split" signing. As most of us know, if this isn't anticipated in advance, sometimes the names are pre-filled, even though both didn't personally appear...

Also, even if they didn't pre-fill the names, I wouldn't want to give someone an opportunity to get a signature of one party after the fact, then just add that person's name to the certificate. We've read plenty of stories here of people looking up recorded documents and finding that sort of thing.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/7/11 1:06am
Msg #382450

A perfect example, Janet. n/m

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 5/7/11 1:21am
Msg #382451

Agree w/ Linda, Susie, & Janet.

If it is wrong, the notary must provide the correct information. No one, and I mean no one, can make a notary sign, attest to, and place their seal on documents with incorrect information. It is illegal for them to do so.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/6/11 9:05pm
Msg #382441

Oregon law says to strike plurals, circle/underline "she/he/

their, etc.

I don't know how another jurisdiction in any state can dictate our state laws, or our responsibilities to uphold and follow our laws.

Reply by James Dawson on 5/7/11 10:59am
Msg #382480

I'd love to see a portion of those instructions stating that and also hear from some of the WA. notaries about this concerning the county recording process. Don't seem right to me.

Reply by James Dawson on 5/7/11 12:00pm
Msg #382497

AHA....It covers all angles for

same sex partners, that's got to be it.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/7/11 2:41pm
Msg #382520

Or sisters and brothers, cousins, grandchildren, business

partners...

Reply by Rani Sampson on 5/7/11 2:05pm
Msg #382515

Re: Washington Law

None of the state laws or regulations (RCWs or WACs) prohibit a notary from striking text from a document.

Each county has its own recording office, and each county sets its own rules for what it will and will not record. Generally, each county must record whatever is given to them to record. However, a county may refuse a document if it does not meet their legibility or formatting requirements. Formatting requirements pertain to size of font and width of margins.

It's hard to imagine how a strikethrough could run afoul of any legibility or formatting requirements.

Reply by James Dawson on 5/7/11 2:09pm
Msg #382516

Thanks, very kind of you to respond..! n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/7/11 12:21pm
Msg #382500

I have not seen any mandates from companies not accepting the All-Purpose Acknowledgment but I stopped using them a long time ago. I have created own Acks - customized them in MS Word so that I have separate Acks for a male, one for a female and one for multiple signers. I reduced the line the name is written on so that no one could add a second name, nor would I need to draw a line after writing the name.

This came after a discussion about two years ago of a Notary notarizing for three people at the airport, two had ID and one didn't and the Notary had the feeling that the third person's name was going to be added to the Ack after she/he left. I thought about that and decided to stop using the All-Purpose Acks and created my own. Therefore, if someone adds any additional names on my Acks, it will be an *obvious* alteration of the Ack.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/7/11 2:43pm
Msg #382521

Perfect work-around to solve the issue. n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/8/11 8:29am
Msg #382543

"I thought about that and decided to stop using the All-Purpose Acks and created my own. Therefore, if someone adds any additional names on my Acks, it will be an *obvious* alteration of the Ack."

What would cause yours to be rejected by the recipient? They will not know that it is an unusual situation. Just curious.

My way is to always use the attached ack when possible and, if needed, I will make handwritten corrections. The journal is the only defense we have to show that someone did not sign. Dishonest people will alter their own passports and DLs if they want to. No way to really stop them.

Just my opinion.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/8/11 5:50pm
Msg #382578

<<<What would cause yours to be rejected by the recipient? They will not know that it is an unusual situation. Just curious. The journal is the only defense we have to show that someone did not sign. Dishonest people will alter their own passports and DLs if they want to. No way to really stop them.>>>

Whether it's rejected or not was not the reason for customizing my Acks. Customizing them means less writing for me - "My Name, Notary Public" is one less thing I have to write. I don't have to circle the proper pronoun (i.e. he/she/they), that is already taken care of too. The certs look so much more professional and neat without items circled and scratched off. Also, if I'm notarizing for Jane Doe, the Ack cert will show the female pronouns ONLY, so John cannot put his name in their too afterwards. As matter of fact, Suzi Doe cannot add her name either as the pronouns are in the singular version.

True what you said about dishonest people but their dishonesty will be obvious on my Acks. I too always use preprinted or attached Acks/Jurats if they are CA compliant but 90% of them aren't so I'm using my custom certs 90% of the time.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/8/11 7:59pm
Msg #382584

Lisa, just curious, does a loose cert have to be physically

attached to the doc's sig page like in Oregon?

For me, it's just easier to circle and line-out, even while it takes a bit more time. With the slower pace, I'm enjoying the process of prepping the pkgs from my perch, and saving a tree or two, too.

I carry NR's certs for "those times" we all have. But I sure can see how much more fluid your system is.

Just thought of something as an additional system to yours: If some recording clerks are refusing to record a doc because the cert is in compliance with the Notary's State laws, a stamp that states (something everyone should already know): 'This Notarial Cert has been executed by all signatories in compliance with Oregon Law under ORS 194...' or something like that? I mean, good grief, "no strike-outs" in ~our~ certs? Hmph.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/8/11 8:24pm
Msg #382586

Keep another thing in mind with loan packages

Adding a loose cert to the security instrument will add to the recording fees - whatever the "per page" charge is - and if title has figured their recording charges to the penny then there's no wiggle room and the additonal charges MAY come out of the NSA's fee for adding recordable pages.

For this reason I prefer to adapt the preprinted cert if at all possible and not add pages...may want to consider the stamp...I also prefer the notarizations on the same page as the signatures (so the stamp would work better) but that's not always my call

Just a thought.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/8/11 9:57pm
Msg #382590

Good point. I haven't seen this particular "demand," but

if it starts to become a problem, I may just do the stamp.

As long as I can remember in over 30 years as a Notary Public, I've held to the rule that our certs were *our* responsibility to be state compliant. I just can't get over any other jurisdiction having any say about another state's legislated requirements.

For instance, CA Rules incerted into any pre-printed cert (i.e., *my* cert if the doc is Notarized by me in Oregon, I line out, because it's superfluous and erroneous, and has nothing to do with Oregon.

The times are changing fast, so I'm so glad for this thread and thoughtful responses. Thanks.

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/9/11 7:15am
Msg #382594

Linda & Susan - stamps on recordable docs...

Check with local clerk before using. Some clerks will not accept them because of the size of the print. I learned the hard way.

Linda, you are so right about the recording fees!

I never attach or substitute if I can use what is provided to me.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/9/11 8:31am
Msg #382595

Ah! A hitch in the giddyup...good point, Brenda. n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/9/11 2:28pm
Msg #382634

Not a problem, Brenda...I myself don't have a stamp

But others do so it may be a viable option.

Reply by sealed/CA on 5/9/11 11:55am
Msg #382613

Re: Great Input

Thank you all for the wonderful replies.
I agree with Susan. The notary certs are "our" domain. Making them as specific as possible is a protection that we should be afforded.
I appreciate the airport story Linda. I too have created my own loose-leaf certs that I use when the provided one is not compliant. However, I left the he/she/they as I didn't want to carry around so many different ones. I will re-think that now.
I am kicking myself that I did not make a copy of those instructions. It would have been nice to share it word for word. I'm hoping that I interpreted it wrong.