Posted by Daffodil on 5/3/11 6:49pm
Msg #382031

Lower Pay From Vendors

First American informed me that $75 was the going rate for my area and, unless I accepted this, I would not receive any assignments from them. Now every job coming through wants to pay me $75 to drive 20 miles, print out 2 copies of 130 pgs, and notarize 8-12 signatures. What the heck is going on? I can not live on this.

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 5/3/11 6:53pm
Msg #382032

Dump 'em & move on to others that offer professional pay. n/m

Reply by NotaryJoeFL on 5/5/11 11:44am
Msg #382213

Re: Dump 'em & move on to others that offer professional pay.

If anyone calls me with a fee of less than $100, I usually tell them I won't even start my car for less than $100 per closing. If it is more than 15-20 miles each way, I get $125 or more. I stay busy, too. There are plenty of companies that will pay $100 + per closing. If so many that are desperate for work would stick to the $100 fee schedule, we would all be better off.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/3/11 7:03pm
Msg #382034

The US dollar is down, the Rupee is up and they’ve got to get the money to pay their schedulers from someplace? Why not you?

Reply by A S Johnson on 5/4/11 10:04am
Msg #382084

NSAs could be paid if they didn't have so many handholders! They wouldn't need handholders if they paid and used professioanl NSAs!

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/3/11 7:17pm
Msg #382036

I'm confused. You say 'VendorS'... and 'now every job coming through'....
Do you mean any/all jobs from all companies OR every job thru First Am?
In either case, just say no and move on to better companies that value their Vendors.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 5/3/11 7:38pm
Msg #382038

As long as someone accepts the lower pay, they have no reason to increase the fee.

In my area, business has become very slow. I still get the calls. However, most are not willing to meet my fee. There are, of course, a few professional companies out there still that like to get the job done right by a professional and will pay a fee worthy of a professional. Those are the ones we want to cultivate and make ourselves available for. Hopefully, the others will soon learn.

Reply by James Dawson on 5/3/11 8:40pm
Msg #382040

I agree Yoli we are professionals first and

vendors second!

Reply by Frank/NC on 5/3/11 9:49pm
Msg #382050

Re: I agree Yoli we are professionals first and

Business right now is terrible but there is no way that we should let these low ballers take advantage. Let's everyone stick to our prices and let them go somewhere else to get their work done.

Reply by Daffodil on 5/3/11 9:36pm
Msg #382042

Several vendors have called and told me they can only pay $70 or $75. I accommodate them only because I have good work with them in the past and I need the income.

Reply by notary365MI on 5/3/11 9:45pm
Msg #382048

WOW! Vendors TOLD you they could only pay $70 or $75 and you went with that? So how long do you think before your accomodation goes down to $60 or $55? With the current reduction in what you seem ok in accepting, you might be better off just getting that job at Micky D's (seriously). BTW, I had a vendor say something similar about affordability when I quoted my $$$ minimum fee, and they ended up calling me back cuz the other notaries were unavailable (code for the other notaries wouldn't accept that LOWBALL SLIME fee and were probably more than my $$$ fee)! Got my standard $$$ fee + last minute $$ fee! All money isn't good money!

Reply by Claudine Osborne on 5/3/11 9:55pm
Msg #382053

Daffodil, YOU are part of the problem!
You accept these fees!
Hey I can use the money too..I am a professional with experience and I would never accept $75.00 for a loan closing! I dont know about you but the gas in my little town and area is now $ 4.18 a gal..Up over 26 cents over night! I cant work for peanuts..You and others that take these fees are hurting yourselves in the long run!

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 5/3/11 11:47pm
Msg #382059

Agreed! SAs acccepting low ball offers are the problem also. n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 5/3/11 10:59pm
Msg #382057

Bingo. "I need the income." That's where they prey. In my

neck of the Central Oregon Coast, I've got little competition, and almost 10 years experience. It became necessary for me to turn down the longer distance assignments - regardless of the offer - which I can fortunately afford to do. A unique situation, true.

My point is, that when I *had* to have whatever job - I took it to pay the mortgage and put food on the table and gas in the old beater. But all the while, I got my education, entered the professional world, and learned to negotiate wages and benefits in return for my human resources.

If you find you're "working for nothing," it's time to make some decisions about income streams; about your budget; about your goals and aspirations; and about your options.

If "good work" isn't paying the bills after the expenses of your business, and your table is bare? It may be time to take stock in your Business Model, as well as the realities of your particular circumstances.

You will find tons of information here, especially if you explore the treasures of the Search Button at the top of the screen. Others will undoubtedly offer more specific guidance for your consideration.

All the best.

Reply by Susan/CA on 5/4/11 9:48am
Msg #382080

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors--I hope Daffodil is not in my..

I hope Daffodil is not in my area! There are plenty of companies still paying me XXX dollars. I am in Los Angeles county and I get a few companies still trying to low ball me. 60-75 dollars for edocs...really..OMG! Each time these companies call they say the same thing..let me see if I can get that approved, and of course they rarely do because they always have someone to accept them instead of holding firm on their fee. If everyone held firm on their fees these companies would "have" to pay what we asked or go out of business (best case scenario). I only have 2 companies that call me with low ball fees. The rest pay a decent fee...I think Daffodil needs to apply for more companies, depending on your area, you should be able to make more and work less and run these roach companies out of business..."just say NO!"

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/11 10:32am
Msg #382091

"I need the income"

The part you don't get is...at $70-$75/signing, by the time you take into account ALL the expenses incurred for the signing (and I mean ALL the expenses) - you HAVE no income! You're in the hole and working at a negative..

yeesh..

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 5/4/11 2:20pm
Msg #382112

What I don't get is that NOW they are suprised to be

offered $70-75 or less after accepting the low ball offers?

People like that do it to themselves and then want to complain about it when the realize they cannot make any profit or that they are actually working for free after all expenses. They are looking for sympathy in the wrong place if you ask me.

If you put something "on sale" often enough, then you have devalued it to the point that no one is willing to pay you the true value of it any longer and will eventually seek to obtain it for an even lower price in the future. Wake up!!

Reply by Belinda/CA on 5/4/11 12:05am
Msg #382061

Got a refi call and was told it was a small package with a couple of pages faxbacks. Took the job. It was 144 pages x 2, not many faxbacks, and 28, YES 28! notarizations! Are these SS's crazy!

Reply by jnew on 5/4/11 8:10am
Msg #382073

I don't think this is strictly a SA problem. The signing companies are offering a huge discount to the title companies if they give them a large group of orders or exclusive orders. The SC is making money on volume. When they offer a fee which is acceptable to a notary, due to lack of competing SA's in area or SA's willing to work for a low fee, they have to make it up by paying as little as possible to SA's who compete with low charging notaries or notaries in a larger market. The problem with SA's is that if you live in a large market, you will have more jobs available, but you also will get priced out of the jobs by lower charging SA's. A lot of SA's have said they will limit their coverage area to take these jobs, since they can't profit on a longer trip. By doing this, you are limiting your opportunities for work. It is like having a 50 block area with 50 SA's. You are saying you will work only if a job comes up on my block. These companies are akin to a Walmart coming into a small town. Walmart destroys a retail market because the market can't compete on price. These small retailers can appeal to the consumers not to shop there, but shoppers can't resist the price savings and will sacrifice quality to get a good deal. In the SA market, SC bigness equals badness since the TC's can't resist the price savings. I wish there was an easy answer.

Reply by MonicaFL on 5/4/11 10:15am
Msg #382087

I personally think that Title Companies who use signing services are lazy! What do they care what a ss charges or pays the notary - it all comes out of the borrower's pocket anyway. If TC's really cared about anything except their bottom line, they would just get off their butts and call the notary in the first place. We are easy to find.

Reply by Ann ABC notary on 5/4/11 10:46am
Msg #382093

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

Lazy?? How about the fact that there is no business!! Maybe it's time you all started looking for a new "profession". So many companies are going out of business & by next year there will be hardly anything left. So for all of you that still feel the need to over charge, you should start thinking twice before turning down a job. For those of you where this is a just a mere supplemental income, then it won't hurt to turn work down I suppose. Where do you all get your information with regards to what the title companies and SS companies get paid? Have you any idea how many entities are paid to perform one loan? It's ridiculous that notaries still have a sense of entitlement in this economy, considering you have no degree and no college diploma. I watch you all praise each other for a job well done and for turning down "low ball fees", yet you all seem to have time to sit around and "chat". I GUESS YOU DON'T NEED THE MONEY.
TURN WORK DOWN? Really? You're that better off without the work? It must be nice if you can afford to do that, because there are so many jobless people in this nation, they wish they could make $75 and hour, that's really what it boils down to. You all complain about gas prices and paper costs.
Do you go out and buy paper each time you have to print or do you at least have the common sense like any business minded person to stock up and get great deals. RIDICULOUS!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/11 10:56am
Msg #382094

Re: RIDICULOUS!!!!!.....and Ann is back to tell us all off..

" .... $75 and hour, that's really what it boils down to"

Really...seriously??

You really don't have a clue do you?

Reply by BrendaTx on 5/4/11 8:40pm
Msg #382162

Ann has a clue, Linda.

Her rhetoric is the same every time. She wants to make more money, therefore, notaries must take less.

Reply by SouthernOK on 5/4/11 11:57am
Msg #382099

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

Ann, FWIW to you I have 2 degrees and a valide teaching certificate in TX. I do part time tutoring at the local college, where I was a professor of Chemistry.

I do this for extra money as I am not in need of income, but I won't turn down a dollar...I was raised with the highest work ethics and it allowed me to retire at 28.

So not everyone on here is uneducated, we do shop for paper deals to stock-up and a good chunk of the NR's are nice people.

Reply by SouthernOK on 5/4/11 11:59am
Msg #382100

pardon my typos, I'm a Chemist! n/m

Reply by James Dawson on 5/4/11 12:52pm
Msg #382103

Let them eat cake.....Ann....are you familiar with

the "greedy" Escrow officers who close loans after hours just so they can get that money too? I likewise have a college degree and THAT education is what tells me it's B S low-ball offer! Unemployed people do have principles and character also so I don't think it shows good judgment to belittle anyone about there chosen "profession". Not all burger "flippers" earn the same salary either.

Reply by Ann ABC notary on 5/4/11 6:16pm
Msg #382152

Re: Let them eat cake.....Ann....are you familiar with

How does having a business degree apply to being a notary (vendor)? Does a college degree make a person more business savvy? NO! if you do an average of 5 signings a day, $75 each, that's a total of $375.00, that is of course if you have the work, average for 10 gallons you will spend is approx. $41.00, and you all mean to tell me you're not making a profit. What kind of other expenses do you have?
at $125.00 a job, I'd expect you have a secretary or an assitant to help you set your appts. and make your copies, this is why i think it's ridiculous! As i said before, you all can hold hands and praise each other because you turned down a $75.00 job, I suppose it's logical if you're only getting 1 or a handful of jobs a week. A burger "flipper" has more training than a notary, yet they earn substantially less.
What kind of degree do you need to become a notary and earn $125.00 per job. JMO..... none will agree, but a like seeing all your comments. One question: since the beginning of the year, how many have seen a substantial decrease in work? You're a fool if you think it will be anything like it used to be with title companies dissolving left and right.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/11 7:05pm
Msg #382154

Re: Let them eat cake.....Ann....

"if you do an average of 5 signings a day, $75 each, that's a total of $375.00, that is of course if you have the work, average for 10 gallons you will spend is approx. $41.00, and you all mean to tell me you're not making a profit. What kind of other expenses do you have?"

I guess you don't consider Federal Income Tax and, in your case, CA State Income Tax, an expense? Aside from the combustibles for this business, the tax impact has to be figured first before anything since all your income is taxable on a federal level - so of that $75 for the signing, you can take 25-30% right off the top - THEN start figured your expenses for the job...

Of course, for those who don't claim the income, federal and state taxes aren't a consideration. Juas those who print at their day job don't need to consider toner, paper, or printer wear and tear...guess it all depends on circumstances on HOW you make the profit.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/11 7:07pm
Msg #382155

Sorry...typos...

figured s/b figuring..

Juas s/b Just as

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/4/11 8:41pm
Msg #382164

Re: Let them eat cake.....Ann....are you familiar with

<<< if you do an average of 5 signings a day, $75 each, that's a total of $375.00, that is of course if you have the work, average for 10 gallons you will spend is approx. $41.00, and you all mean to tell me you're not making a profit. What kind of other expenses do you have?>>>

Marketing - website + hosting, business cards, notary directory listings, networking luncheons, etc. Marketing is continuous to grow one's business.

Equipment - initial cost of laser printer, toner, equipment depreciation (wear & tear),

Supplies - paper, toner, pens, binder clips, briefcase, etc.

Auto - gasoline, tires wear out faster, auto insurance, other wear and tear

Notary commission - bond, E & O insurance, background check, notary class, seal, journal, etc.

Taxes - federal and state taxes, and possibly social security (if the Notary chooses to contribute)

Many of those costs are not fixed, they are recurring costs that must be factored into EACH loan signing. What??? Did you think the above costs just fall out of the sky? No, I suppose, Ann, that you just pluck money from a tree and pay for the above expenses.

Business owners figure their costs and CHARGE a fee that covers expenses and yields a profit. The employee minded just accept whatever bones ($75) are thrown at them, and *think* they are making money. Ann is in the latter category.

Reply by jba/fl on 5/4/11 9:29pm
Msg #382173

Ann - you need to decide which story you are presenting.

First:
It's ridiculous that notaries still have a sense of entitlement in this economy, considering you have no degree and no college diploma. Msg #382093

Then, it doesn't appear to matter:
How does having a business degree apply to being a notary (vendor)? Does a college degree make a person more business savvy? Msg #382152

So which is it? You decide, then maybe we can play with you. Otherwise, through your own published admissions, you are an unreliable kook.

Reply by pan/nd on 5/4/11 12:58pm
Msg #382105

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

Ann,

I don't know what planet you come from....but it certainly isn't one where reality and logic

are part of the equation.

We're all dummies are we...with no degree.....??

Mine degree is in physics and math.

What's yours in? Didn't know anybody handed out degrees in ridicule.

Reply by pan/nd on 5/4/11 1:01pm
Msg #382106

typo ---- substitute "my" for "mine" n/m

Reply by TedG/AZ on 5/4/11 1:49pm
Msg #382111

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

I think the missing link in this discussion is whether or not Signing Agents have taken the time to truly calculate the total cost that they incur when they perform a signing. That's the only way that you know exactly how much profit you make on each signing. Take the time to perform the analysis correctly, you may be surprised.

Reply by bagger on 5/4/11 2:22pm
Msg #382113

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

UH Ann...We see the HUD.
You know that document that outlines what the Borrower pays.
And, we do notice the line that says Notary fees ------ $300.00
So, for you to "find" us you get $200, and leave $100 for the Notary?
Sounds fair to me.

(PS - retired management from one of the US largest firms with a BS in Business Management.)

Reply by Moneyman/TX on 5/4/11 2:34pm
Msg #382116

Ann... Back again with your same bull?

Pretty much the same stuff you tried to peddle in Msg #368628 but decided to stop answering others when they pointed out just how much cow patties you were slinging. For anyone wanting to see what I'm talking about, read the rest of the thread that has the message I linked here.

Ann, you are the ridiculous one. You are the middleman that wants outrageous pay for the actual work (2 phone calls and an email to the NSA).

"Any" money is not good money.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/4/11 2:54pm
Msg #382121

It's our monthly lecture whether we want it or not

This one on 5/4/11

4/4/11 Msg #378596
3/8/11 Msg #375549
Skipped February
1/14/11 Msg #368628

Nothing of any substance in between....and before the January thread nothing until October 2010 when she was angry again Msg #357231 ....that's as far back as I care to go

Although I can't find a listing in SC, she sure sounds like either a very low paying SS or a lowball notary...

MHO..

Reply by notary365MI on 5/4/11 4:50pm
Msg #382138

Re: Ann... Back again with your same bull?

Ann..... are you offering $75 jobs to signing agents? probably! well, my little bachelors degree in psychology tells me you were attempting to use the standard "reverse psychology" model on us "uneducated" notaries. unfortunately Ann, you are not supposed to judge a notary by their stamp (hee hee hee)! We weren't fooled!

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/4/11 2:43pm
Msg #382119

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

<<<....they wish they could make $75 and hour, that's really what it boils down to.>>>

What is truly RIDICULOUS is that you have no clue as to the true cost of completing a loan signing. Let me enlighten you on something - two thirds of the signing fee goes toward costs (i.e. paper, toner, misc. supplies, gasoline, vehicle wear & tear, equipment wear & tear, auto insurance, marketing, TAXES - that leaves one third for profit. So let's break this down: $75 divided by 3 is 25. Two thirds of 25 is approx. $16.67. The average signing takes about 3 hours from start to finish (printing docs, reviewing and placing in stacking order, driving to borrowers, completing the actual signing, driving home or to the shipper to ship, then invoicing.

What's left is $8.33.....that is what a Notary nets on a per hour basis when they accept a $75 fee. At $8.33 an hour, I'd be better offer delivering pizzas...at least I can count on getting paid every two weeks and there's less stress and headaches.

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 5/4/11 3:14pm
Msg #382124

It's notaries w/o a clue like Ann('s House of Nuts)... whew!

First, how does this...person... make blanket statements regarding education, etc? Clearly no sense of worth - self or business! Duh - Ann - after you pay your overhead & buy supplies & work twice as hard to make up for the lower pay, you'll find yourself working yourself in the poorhouse! Ttaht's b/c ppl llike you will continue to drive down your OWN fees: today - it's $75 signings - tomorrow - it's $40 signings!!! DUH!!! ..and oh Annie, dear- If you'd gone to college & taken Economics 101, you'd know about supply & demand!!! SMH - no clue whatsoever!

Reply by CH2inCA on 5/4/11 3:19pm
Msg #382126

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

Ouch, I think you may be poking fun at me...

"It's ridiculous that notaries still have a sense of entitlement in this economy, considering you have no degree and no college diploma."

I don't have a degree, other than an above average degree of intelligence ;0)

I've mentioned before; my late husband used to say, "There are just some that are educated beyond their intelligence." I think your post proves that point.

I've worked hard, very very hard, holding down multiple jobs. Early on just to make ends meet, but now to live a reasonably comfortable life. And I have done the math, I've analized this every which way, and I'll tell you, 75.00 loan signings are NOT profitable.

YOU ARE STEPPING OVER DOLLAR BILLS TO PICK UP PENNIES!!!

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 5/4/11 6:02pm
Msg #382149

YOU ARE STEPPING OVER DOLLAR BILLS TO PICK UP PENNIES!!!

That says it ALL!!! LOL!

Reply by NJDiva on 5/4/11 8:45pm
Msg #382165

Re: Lower Pay From Vendors - RIDICULOUS!!!!!

LMAO...I guess Ann can't stand the truth...lmao...ignorance is bliss, huh Ann?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 5/4/11 4:39pm
Msg #382137

Excellent post! n/m