Posted by Matham on 5/19/11 3:31pm
Msg #383733

To advise or not to advise...

Last night, I was at a refi closing and the instructions from the Mortgage company were very clear: docs must be signed in blue.

So I switched out my black pens in the pen holders in my carrying case with blue pens.

Before we began, I laid one blue pen out in front of the husband, the second in front of the wife. I hate to see that I was not paying attention, but I was focused on explaining how the process would work, because the husband was not expecting the wife to appear on any the docs, and at the last minute, I informed him that she had to be present to sign a few of the documents, and I arranged the documents in a manner where we could get all her signatures out of the way first so that I didn't hold her up needlessly in any event.

I was explaining a few of the initial documents and every now and then, the wife asked me questions and I answered them. It was mostly 3 or 4 signatures in when I noticed that the husband had not picked up the blue pen, and was using a black pen.

In the back of my head, I instantly knew that I could just switch out the mortgage's copies with the borrower copies and have him re-sign in blue, but due to rush hour, I was late getting there, and the borrower copies were not arranged in the same manner as I arranged with the docs going back to the mortgage company. So I didn't want to waste any more of their time.

So I left the 3 or 4 docs as is and made a mental note to include a note in the shipped docs back to the mortgage company. I unfortunately ommitted this note by accident this morning and now I am wondering if it even matters, or whether I should advise them as soon as possible.

Have any of you encountered such a situation?

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/19/11 3:51pm
Msg #383734

Always follow instructions, pretend you gave the instructions, now what would you want? The hiring party will let you know in due time, either they won't hire you again or they will expect you to do want they told you. Good luck!

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/19/11 4:04pm
Msg #383735

I was a little lost after you said that you 'caught' the error and then decided to forget it due to rush hour?? If you offer to do the re-sign (if required) at your own expense, I strongly believe that they will pay you for one appointment. It was an accident, can't do anything now. Just correct it and move on, good luck!

Reply by Matham on 5/19/11 4:07pm
Msg #383737

due to rush hour, I was late getting there, and the borrower copies were not arranged in the same manner as I arranged with the docs going back to the mortgage company. So I didn't want to waste any more of their time by sifting through their copies trying to find the right docs to re-sign. I think I felt a little guilty getting there 10 minutes late (despite having called ahead to advise them of the impending tardiness) and didn't want to hold up their time any more than was necessary.

Reply by BossLadyMD on 5/19/11 4:15pm
Msg #383738

You were only 10 mins late in rush hour traffic?? That's impressive! I would have stayed to swop out the docs but dont worry about it. Nothing you can do now.

Reply by Matham on 5/19/11 4:22pm
Msg #383740

So need to advise the m company then?

Reply by topflyt on 5/19/11 7:05pm
Msg #383786

Yes, I would advise them ASAP! Better to let them know that you are aware of the impending problem( if there is one) than for them to look at 2 different inks and wonder " What the heck was this notary doing?" I will always be truthful when I know I made a mistake.

Reply by Carol Graff on 5/20/11 10:07am
Msg #383824

that happened to me also. I got so busy I did not notice the husband was using his own pen (even tho' I had the blue pens on the table). Fortunately, it was not a problem and closed.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/19/11 4:22pm
Msg #383741

I always use blue ink/pens unless instructed otherwise. (depending on where the docs will be recorded) I find it easier to do my QC at the table.
Your ‘job’ or responsibility is to see that everything is signed as instructed, and then witness those signatures. Being in a hurry doesn’t matter, being tired doesn’t matter, and being late for another appointment doesn’t matter. As for wasting the borrowers (and your) time, having to re-do something (if you can) at the table is always better than making a second trip. In my opinion you messed up! Will it make any difference? Probably not. I’d just send in the docs as they are, and say nothing. If they call you on it it’s your responsibility to get it done the way they contracted for.
It’s a good thing you’re a notary and not a house painter! JMO

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/19/11 4:28pm
Msg #383744

house painter..I know what you mean, very funny. LOL. n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 5/19/11 4:24pm
Msg #383742

How long would it have taken...

to get those very few documents out and resigned? As I recall, you are fairly new. One thing you want to always remember is that what you send back to them could very well determine whether or not you work for them again. There's plenty other notaries out there, they don't have to deal with inconsistencies.

To advise or not advise? To work for a company or not work for a company? All relative. No one's perfect so just chalk it up to experience, but if it's at all possible, it's always a good idea to do it right as instructed no matter how long it takes. Otherwise, you may as well get out of the business IMHO.

And as far as the below goes:

"because the husband was not expecting the wife to appear on any the docs, and at the last minute, I informed him that she had to be present to sign a few of the documents, and I arranged the documents in a manner where we could get all her signatures out of the way first so that I didn't hold her up needlessly in any event."

that's all good and if you want to take the time and potentially cause yourself a whole lot of confusion, you can do all that. But I have the NBS present through the entire signing. Um, a document could have been missed, or something could have torn, gotten wet, the dog could have grabbed it off the table and ate it...who knows the plethora of events that could occur, and then what? You're S.O.L. I'll hold her/him hostage the entire signing. Plus, because the NBS isn't signing, they many times will read the doc's if they feel the need or they'll be bored and tell their spouse to hurry up. If they ask if they can leave, I merely say I'm sorry but I need you both here for the entire signing.

That's how I do it. I don't care whether it's an inconvenience to the NBS or not when it comes to getting the documents executed. That's the time it was scheduled. I held up my end and they need to hold up there's as well.

Just how I do business!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/19/11 4:27pm
Msg #383743

Though I can understand how you must have felt, you should not have let that affect your doing the job correctly. You let borrowers know in advance you were running late, you apologized profusely (I'm sure) - they must have been fine with it - IMO you should have taken the few minutes to find the pages and replace them, with a simple "I'm really sorry about this but if we don't fix it it may affect the funding of your loan".

Maybe the hiring party will be okay with it, maybe they won't - those instructions regarding ink color usually come from the lender or the recorder's office - and if that document can't be recorded because of the ink color, you'll soon find the few extra minutes it would take to find and replace those pages is a small price to pay.

Remember, you always, always, always, take the time to do your job correctly in accordance with the instructions you were given, no matter how inconvenient it may be for the signers - I'm sure they'd rather take a few extra minutes and do it right than have to end up doing it again - and possibly losing their rate, taking time off, and further inconvenience.

Reply by Lee/AR on 5/19/11 4:28pm
Msg #383745

forgeddahboutit

As long as it's signed correctly in the right space....they probably won't give a hoot.
I had one lady who kept wandering around the house taking care of small children--can't really complain about that. But she kept losing every pen I provided and would just grab one from I-know-not-where and add another signature or 2 and disappear again. That loan was probably signed in every shade of blue and some black. Never heard a word.

Hope you're that lucky.

Reply by JanelWI on 5/19/11 4:29pm
Msg #383746

You most certainly should have swapped the docs out; late or not. You are charged with following the instructions as indicated by the contracting entity. Ten minutes late is not the end of the world; they could have waited while you pulled out the right docs after she was done signing. What if this gets rejected due to the dual ink color? Then it gets delayed even further for you to go back at your expense to fix it. Best rule of thumb; get it done right the first time, no matter how long it takes.

In my opinion, and if I were you; I would most certainly call the company and guarantee your work. If they want you to go back, it should be at your expense. Explain the situation, give them the heads up on how the docs are coming back, so they can decide if they want you to go back. You can get the docs sent back to them before the rescission expires. You decided not to correct your mistake when you had the chance at the table, the contracting entity should not be inconvenienced for that, and neither should the borrowers.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/19/11 5:57pm
Msg #383773

When I'm at a signing and the borrowers have their own pens, and there's instructions from the TC to definitely sign in a specific color, I will announce to the borrowers, "We will be signing the docs in blue (or black) ink, what color are your pens?" The borrowers will then scribble something on scratch paper to check and if they have the wrong color, then I will hand them the appropriate color, or they'll go and get their own (of the correct color).

My point is, I don't just place pens in front of the borrowers, I verbalize that we NEED to sign in a specific color. If the TC doesn't specify a blue or black ink, I will ensure that we all three are using the same color so the docs are consistent.

As far as being late or wasting time - you cannot control traffic, even leaving at a reasonable time doesn't guarantee you'll make it on time, especially if a bad accident causes a complete freeway or roadway closure. Keeping the borrower informed that you're in traffic but on your way is all you can do. With that said, you should always do (within reason) what it takes to return a properly executed loan package.

I have had to swap copies for one reason or another and you're correct - the signing copy is not in the same order as the borrowers copy, but it only takes a few minutes to swap copies. If you have an opportunity at the table to correct a mistake, always take it. In my 3.5 years of loan signings, there's never been a mistake that takes more than a few minutes to correct.

Reply by JanelWI on 5/19/11 6:51pm
Msg #383779

Wow, I am 13 years in, and the signing copies and borrower copies are in the same order when I get them overnighted, or when I print them. I think if you read what was written originally it was meant to mean that he or she specially arranged the docs to accommodate the wife signing the legals. If the borrower copy and signing copy are not in the same order it is because I pulled out what I choose to start with first. Still, I agree with you, the copies should have been swapped regardless.

At the end of the day we are serving three basic clients, the contracting entity, the lender and the borrower. It is about good customer service for all involved to ensure compliance with all instructions and perform the closing with accuracy. JMHO.

Reply by SouthernOK on 5/19/11 7:02pm
Msg #383785

well said n/m

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/19/11 7:18pm
Msg #383788

<<<< Wow, I am 13 years in, and the signing copies and borrower copies are in the same order when I get them overnighted, or when I print them. I think if you read what was written originally it was meant to mean that he or she specially arranged the docs to accommodate the wife signing the legals. If the borrower copy and signing copy are not in the same order it is because I pulled out what I choose to start with first.>>>>

I am clear on what the OP meant..............Wow, I'm surprised that anyone would read my post and glean from it that I meant the borrower's copy and the signing copy are in different orders because they were printed that way. I may have been born at night, but not last night.

Reply by JanelWI on 5/20/11 6:58am
Msg #383810

Re: LKT/CA

I gleaned that because of the way you wrote it below:

"I have had to swap copies for one reason or another and you're correct - the signing copy is not in the same order as the borrowers copy, but it only takes a few minutes to swap copies."

If you meant the opposite; then I apologize I was not trying to ruffle feathers. I ultimately agreed with you wholeheartedly. I was just sharing my experience. To me, the way you wrote it, sounded like the opposite of that. I am sure you are very good at what you do. If I misunderstood you, again, I apologize. Long day yesterday, 4 signings, plus finishing my degree, taking care of family and household in between. I will be sure to read more carefully next time so as to not upset anyone. You must have meant that he or she was right, but he/she should have swapped anyway? Again sorry.

Reply by MW/VA on 5/19/11 8:57pm
Msg #383795

I think that with more experience under your belt you will

learn to handle these situations. I'm guessing this is the same signing you said you were driving 2 hrs. in rush hour for. After a 2-hr. drive, what would a few minutes to swap out copies have meant. I can understand the nervousness, as I felt that in the beginning, too. Confidence will come as you get a few more under your belt. In the meantime, take your time & do the job correctly. That's what matters most. IMO they probably won't make an issue of the docs being signed in 2 different colors. It takes a lot of flexibility to be in this biz. Borrowers can pick up another pen, forget to sign some docs with "jr.", etc. You will learn to stay focused & keep an eye on them. Just hang in there & keep trying. Your conscientiousness will pay off in time.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 5/20/11 5:07am
Msg #383806

I commend you for your efforts, Matham

It seems evident to me that you're taking your new business venture quite seriously, and I applaud the effort. You WILL make errors now & again, hopefully 'again' will be far away from 'now', but how you deal with mistakes is another place to shine.

Were it me, I'd call my client & own the error. Likely, the pen-swapping won't matter but some lenders can be quite picky (all it takes is one control-freak having a bad hair day). Still - calling & owning it gives you the chance to become more familiar with your client, lets them know HOW you deal with your errors, makes it clear to them that you aren't 'blowing off' directives. They're a human being too - none of us are perfect.

Experience is what you get from making mistakes ....=)