Posted by GOLDGIRL/CA on 5/19/11 1:29am
Msg #383640

What's a notary to do?

Apparently, I got dropped from a heretofore perfectly fine SS because I had the borrower sign the way his name was printed on the docs (isn't that our mantra?) instead of what the lender wanted, which was for him to sign how he signed his DL. To reconstruct: His name on the docs was, for example, Aleksander Igor Petrovich, which matched his DL, but he signed his DL: Alex Petrovich.

They demanded a re-sign. I was stunned. I asked the SS owner what the heck was going on. He had no idea what I was talking about! Told me to call escrow, which I did. She also had no clue what I meant when I said if I had borrowers sign their name the way they normally did, (usually the way it is on their DL) instead of the way it's printed on the docs, I would have never made it past my first signing. In fact the escrow woman said she's signed many loans herself where her full name was printed, something like Mary Ann Smith, but she signs everything "MSmith" - all run together, but presumably readable.

I know for a fact that in 99% of the loans I do, if I allowed an Aleksander to sign Alex, for example, it would be bounced. This is what happens when lenders force us to force borrowers to sign their names exactly as printed - until they want them to sign exactly the way it is on their DL. Oh, and besides getting "fired," I'm apparently not going to get paid a dime for the rejected signing. (I was unavailable for the re-sign).

Anyway, I'm going to continue onward in the same way I've already had thousands of loans signed, despite being tempted to ask each scheduler how the lender wants the borrowers to sign: "The way it's printed on the docs or the way they signed their DL?" That might be fun .. not!

Reply by HisHughness on 5/19/11 2:17am
Msg #383641

Did you have prior instructions on how the lender wanted the docs signed, or was this dropped on you after the signing?

Reply by Shoshana/AZ on 5/19/11 7:18am
Msg #383646

If you were told before the signing to have the borrower sign a certain way, that is what you must do.
If the signature is unreadable, all the better.

Reply by Les_CO on 5/19/11 9:19am
Msg #383653

Unless instructed otherwise I have the borrower sign as their name as printed on the docs. Sometimes I have them sigh different ways on different docs in the same package. If ID says John Jay Doe and some docs say John Doe, and some say John J. Doe I have him sign both ways. This is if I am satisfied that the John Doe in the docs is the John Jay Doe on the ID.
JMO

Reply by Notarysigner on 5/19/11 9:28am
Msg #383655

Goldgirl if there were no specific instructions telling you to sign "just like DL" I would say sign as name appears on Docs is correct, to me. Here's how I handle "that", baring special instructions.

The DL is what I use to ID the person so that name must match in my Journal. As far as the Docs?...Scribble, scribble on Docs equals name on Doc AND DL. The only exception I've ever had were Provident loan packages which tell you it must be exact and above the signature line.

Don't sweat being "fired" by anyone, you're an independent contractor and someone else will step up to the plate. Hell, I got fired from working for an excellent paying SS not because I messed up but because the funding officer didn't like the way I signed my name on the Acknowledgments.

Reply by Colleen Martin on 5/19/11 9:43am
Msg #383663

i always have them sign as their name is typed. if the borrower "insists" that they always sign a certain way, other than the way it's typed, i make sure there is a Signature Affidavit in the package and that they sign it appropriately. i can't believe you were fired for that!! wow, doing your job just isn't good enough anymore. yikes.

Reply by Lavergne Manuel on 5/19/11 10:01am
Msg #383670

I always look on the Mortgage and if the name is not printed on the docs as it is on title, I would call someone before going.

Reply by twostep/CA on 5/19/11 10:48am
Msg #383683

I had a similar situation a couple of days ago for my first ever signing. The borrower was just scribbling his signiture and it was impossible to make out his name, so I asked him to sign the way his name appeared on the docs even though he said that was not his signiture. He then wrote out his full name on the signiture line and did the same for the signiture affidavit. The docs were sent back and the SS told me he was being yelled at by the escrow co. but still managed to be understanding with me. Yesterday I met the signers who were really nice about it. ( I felt terrible because the signer had told me during the first signing that this was their 7th signing for puchases just this month and in all the others, he had just scribbled his name and I had told him that my instructions (from training) were to have them sign the way their name appears on the docs.
I doubt that I will be callled again by that SS company(not lowballers BTW) but I just took that in stride as a teaching moment and induction to the world of newbies

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 5/19/11 11:09am
Msg #383684

For future reference, the majority of companies' instructions require that 'the signer must sign his/her name as it appears on the docs' - *meaning* if it's typed "John James Doe" under the line, he must sign "John James Doe" - what you, the notary, have no control over is the signer's "style" of signing that John James Doe - and if he represents to you that the scribble he just made is his signature, and it says John James Doe (and that's happened to me numerous times) and it matches his ID, then you have to let him sign like that - that IS his legal signature and IMO you're not authorized to make him change it.

JMHO

Reply by MW/VA on 5/19/11 12:39pm
Msg #383699

Exactly, Linda. I remember when PAW went over this, and I have really benefitted from that.
I instruct the borrowers that they have to sign their name as John D. Doe, for example. If they sign a scribble, I simply ask them if that signature represents the full name. If they say yes, I can't dispute what is their legal signature. Many signatures are not legible, unfortunately. It's not our job to teach penmanship or cursive writing skills. A notary witnesses a signature & notarizes same--simple as that.
BTW, I have on ss that has it in their instructions "no scribble signatures permitted". IMO that is UPL.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 5/19/11 1:10pm
Msg #383709

Here's how I looks at it.... the signatures I'm notarizing needs to match the signature on the ID. If it doesn't... no can do. I never tell anyone how to sign their name... I simply tell them that, for notarized signatures, it needs to be compared to the ID. If there are instructions in the documents that say otherwise, I will show this to the borrower and tell them that they are being *requested* to sign a specific way, but I cannot control it. I've never had an issue.

On the flip side --- NOBODY will tell me how to sign my name. I have a certain signature for legal documents, and that's how I sign it... if somebody doesn't like it, I don't care.

Reply by PAW on 5/19/11 2:09pm
Msg #383722

The way I look at it, I've IDed the signer such that I am convinced they are who they say they are and who is specified in the documents. If I watch the signer sign his name, then that signature must be the signer's as IDed. (Math equivalent: If A=B and B=C, then A=C) It doesn't make any difference how the signer signs, just that he does sign in my physical presence. (Comparing signatures on the first doc with their ID helps 'convince' me, but isn't necessarily a show-stopper.)

I agree with you Marian, NO ONE tells me how to sign either. I have a signature, that is what's required, not necessarily what the LO, underwriter or title clerk wants. If they simply want my name written out so it's legible, I would be more than happy to do that, but I won't do it on a place where my signature is required.

As someone else (Marilynn, I think) pointed out, a persons signature is what they want it to be and customarily use when their signature is required. No one has the right to tell someone what their signature is or looks like.

Reply by LKT/CA on 5/19/11 6:23pm
Msg #383776

I first look at the borrower's driver's license and if the signature is illegible - I celebrate!!! And I say nothing to the borrower about signing as his/her name is printed. If the borrower's signature is clearly legible, I will inform the borrower that the title company would like for them to sign as their name is printed on the docs. If the borrower refuses (and some have), then the borrower signs as they choose. I include a copy of the borrower's ID for the TC to compare to the docs.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 5/19/11 7:10pm
Msg #383787

it really doesn't matter...especially if the BO signs their

name all in one stroke...totally unreadable at that point. But never had I had a re-sign because of that or because they didn't sign in accordance to the sig on their DL??