Posted by Notarysigner on 11/14/11 7:25pm
Msg #403929

Good one from Ill. Escrow Officer

Borrower calls me and says he has some Docs that need to be notarized. I ask what type and he says loan Docs. I asked if he want’s me just to notarize the Docs requiring notarization or did he want NSA service, his reply was no, I don’t need that service, just the Docs.

I asked him to remove the Docs from the package that have to be notarized and I would do it for him at $10.00 a signature. He has a warranty deed, blank, that he want’s me to notarize. A limited POA, Blank. A notary certification form for me to fill out, and a Jurat for the state of Ill, blank.

Some background. It appears this person has been relocated and some company was going to take is home in Ill. And sell it for him. The reason they were blank was they hadn’t sold it yet and didn’t know who would be the buyer. I told him I couldn’t notarize blank Docs.

He called his contact person on the phone and she asked him to give the phone to me (the wroooong thing to do) and preceded to tell me to stop being difficult and notarize the damn Docs. She added, we do this all the time and it’s o.k.

So I told him to come back after he gets a Doc from her saying it is okay to notarize blank Docs and then I would do it…………Question? Is this normal for Ill.? Do you think she’ll do it? hehe

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/14/11 7:50pm
Msg #403930

James, I have had that same experience

I spoke to the escrow officer and their attorney. Neither could convince me that it was legal for me to notarize signatures on docs with blanks.

I have no doubt that there are notaries out there who will just notarize, even with blanks in the docs. I am not one of them.

They do this so they don't have to pay the recording fees to the county.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/14/11 8:03pm
Msg #403932

Re: James, I have had that same experience

My mindset was,..if she would do this, she really doesn't know what she's doing and that's excusable.

If she was doing it in an attempt to commit fraud, she won't respond.

Which leaves our borrower hanging out there, not knowing what's going on and SAYING notaries can't make up their mind what to do!

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/14/11 8:50pm
Msg #403950

I directed the TC attorney to the Florida Notary Manual

online. He looked it up when we were on the phone and quickly realized he was not going to get me to agree to their request (demand)!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/14/11 8:16pm
Msg #403933

Teresa..I'm confused...how does this avoid recording

fees?

IME this is how relocation companies work - not saying it's legal but I've seen this same procedure time and again over the years - they sell the property for the homeowners - in the meantime they get a blank deed so once the process is complete and it goes to closing they have an executed deed because they don't have the authority to convey title. Nothing gets recorded til the closing is complete.

I wouldn't notarize a blank ANYTHING either..for that matter I wouldn't SIGN a blank Warranty Deed.

IMO this company would be better off to just shut up, have the homeowners sign the deed and notarize it in house - illegal, yes. - at least IMO.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/14/11 8:42pm
Msg #403946

Re: Teresa..I'm confused...how does this avoid recording

The deed should be transferring title from the sellers (the relocating homeowners) to the relocation company. This deed would be recorded and recording fees would be paid to the county.

Then, when a buyer is found, another deed is signed and recorded (with fees paid to the county again) showing the transfer of title from the relocation company to the buyers.

The first time I ran into this, I heard the escrow officer ask someone in her office "Is this a one-deed or two deed contract?" The answer, of course, was a one-deed contract. They expect the sellers to sign a deed with a blank where the buyers names should be, and then they fill in in the names of the buyers when they eventually sell the property. Only one deed is recorded, not two, thus saving the cost of the recording fees.

There's the legal way to do it, with two deeds, and the illegal method, with only one deed. I am sure it is done the illegal way more times than not, but I am not going to particiate in such a transaction.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/14/11 8:50pm
Msg #403951

Makes sense to me,..Thanks n/m

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/14/11 9:02pm
Msg #403953

Okay..I see what you're getting at..thanks~!!! n/m

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 11/15/11 12:02am
Msg #403971

WAY more than recording fees may be involved. Illinois

has very signifcant real estate transfer taxes that must be paid in just
about every case when a property is transfered for consideration.
In the case of some municipalites, the combined state , county and municipality transfer tax may exceed one perscent of the sale price of the property. A $500,000 sale might require a transfer tax of $5,000.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/15/11 7:24am
Msg #403981

Re: WAY more than recording fees may be involved. Illinois

this property was in Cook County. I remember there was something posted here about recording irregularities but I can't find the post. Was it you Bob?

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/15/11 7:31am
Msg #403983

Re: WAY more than recording fees may be involved. Illinois

Yes, fees for doc stamps and intangible tax would also be due on Florida properties when the deed is recorded. These fees would total much more than the cost of the recording fees alone and I meant to include them in my original reply.

Thanks for catching that, Bob!

Reply by Carolyn Breckenridge on 11/15/11 7:34am
Msg #403985

Re: WAY more than recording fees may be involved. Illinois

There is no intangibles and mortgage stamps due on just the deed.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/15/11 7:42am
Msg #403986

Re: WAY more than recording fees may be involved. Illinois

You're right, I am confusing this type transaction with a traditional buyer/seller transaction where the buyer takes out a loan and a mortgage is recorded. The doc stamps and intangible tax are charged on the mortgage.

When a relocation company "buys" the property I doubt they would take out a loan, therefore a mortgage would not be recorded.

My original statement regarding the recording fees is still true.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 11/14/11 8:52pm
Msg #403952

and remember deeds for FL properties require 2 witnesses n/m

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 1/28/12 10:35am
Msg #410156

NOOOO...It is illegal in IL to notarize sigs on BLANK docs.

Next time ANYONE gets this type of situation from IL, have them call me directly!

I'll refer them to a contact I have at the IL SOS office who will tell them point blank that what they are asking notaries to do is just plain illegal in IL.

I do not believe it is legal anywhere? Or if it is, someone please tell me which state allows their notaries to notarize sigs on blank documents?

These companies are scams IMO. Also, for certain types of property, if it's located in Cook county, there's another form needed that the notary MUST file with the recorder of deeds office. This ensures that the grantor signed the deed over, legally!