Posted by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/1/11 1:38pm
Msg #402397

Need To Sort Out Varying Answers on Completing Bottom of Cer

Hi all, I am new and of course my first signing ended up being a 185 package where nearly every page had to at least be initialled (and I thought I was doing well getting $100 for a nearby signing)! It also included different wording on the notary certs and I asked in my NNA NSA LinkedIn forum how to handle this wording in the future, for when I am in a different county that the one I am commissioned in OR especially when in another state as I am commissioned in 2 states, and got two different replies.

Wording beneath notary signature was:
State
County
County acting in

... but some just showed State and County. The package came from Florida.

I was told, for the state I live in, to either put the state and county I am commissioned in and then the county I am doing the signing in after these lines OR that I should just put all state and county info based on where the signing occured - which do you do?

My biggest concern is that I am also commissioned in Kansas while living in Missouri and it is a statewide commission with no mention of a county (my Missouri commission mentions Clay County, Missouri). Some said to put County as N/A and County acting in as wherever the signing took place while others said to put in both county choices the county the signing took place in, and the others then argued that would indicate my commission mentioned that county even though it did not.

Help!

Reply by Les_CO on 11/1/11 1:46pm
Msg #402400

The venue is always where the actual signing takes place.

Reply by Les_CO on 11/1/11 2:05pm
Msg #402403

To clarify… if you are not legally commissioned to notarize a document where it is actually being signed….don’t do it. Don’t worry about what wording to use…don’t use any wording…don’t do it.
If you are legally commissioned to notarize the signature on the document where it is being signed then put in that location.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/1/11 1:53pm
Msg #402402

Signing location. State = Ks or Mo. County = where your

feet are - the county you are performing your notarial duty.

Ignore other counties - the only one that matters is the county you're in at the time.

Hope that helps.

(Our Louisana notaries have different rules, but that's not this situation.)

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/1/11 2:29pm
Msg #402406

Re: Signing location. State = Ks or Mo. County = where your

They all agreed that the top portion of the cert should indicate the state and county where the signing took place in. The disagreement is the wording under the notary signature - some say that is where you put information about where you are comissioned (the ones who have been around a long time) and others say that you still just put in where the signing took place (and they haven't been around very long). That would seem redundant when undr the signature it shows a line for state, a line for county and then another line for county acting in. Why would it need a second line for county acting in if you are always supposed to put that in the line above?

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/1/11 2:41pm
Msg #402407

Re: Signing location. State = Ks or Mo. County = where your

Oh and another just confirmed what I thought I should do for Kansas, where I have a statewide commission. They said they put the following under the notary signature: State would be Kansas; County - they cross out and then they put "entire state" there, and then for county acting in you of course would put where the signing took place. They say their seal (like mine) backs up that the commission is for the entire state and have never had problems with this being accepted.

Reply by Linda_in_MI on 11/1/11 4:01pm
Msg #402411

Re: Signing location. State = Ks or Mo. County = where your

Michigan allows notaries to perform notarization statewide, but the commission is based in only one county, and the county is determined by the address you listed on the application to become a notary. And that is the county I list on the line Commissioned in County of _____________ (even with this information being listed on my stamp). If I am notarizing in a county other than where my commissioned in based or home county, then I have to list that county in the line "Acting in the County of_____________".

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/1/11 4:14pm
Msg #402413

Re: Signing location. State = Ks or Mo. County = where your

So you agree, Linda, that the info below the notary signature is NOT for where "your feet are" unless there is a line for "acting in the county of" under it, right? There is a lot of disagreement about this and it sounds like many just put in everywhere the county they are currently in, even though it might not be right. If you were me, located in Clay County, MO and with a state wide Kansas commission, what would you put below the signature line for county? I can't put in Clay as it wouldn't match the state of Kansas, so I guess I will do as the one says she does and cross out the word county and put in "entire state" there. For those reading just the end comments, the first line of the cert would of course ALWAYS show the state and county the signing is taking place in.

Reply by Linda_in_MI on 11/2/11 8:07am
Msg #402475

The Venue should list where your feet are

Jillian,
As I was taught, at the top of the document should be verbiage that indicates where the signing is taking place and where your feet are planted for the signing.

As far as the notary signature portion of the document, IN MICHIGAN I was taught that the first line is for where your commission is based. And the Acting in County line indicates where your feet are planted for the signing.

I would strongly advise that you check with your Secretary of State or whatever office is responsible for notaries. Since it appears you have notary status in two states, you may need to contact both states.

Reply by dickb/wi on 11/1/11 4:36pm
Msg #402419

Re: Signing location. State = Ks or Mo. County = where your

when u are commisioned for the whole state...then under county--county commisioned in--you woud put the county where your feet are......some of your friends may not have had any trouble putting in state wide, but then they probably haven't been called to testify on where the signing took place.......as some one else on here said....WHERE YOUR FEET ARE..... sorry to yell but wanted to make a point...not an atty yada yada etc............

Reply by Susan Fischer on 11/1/11 4:16pm
Msg #402414

The restatement of the venue (or jurisdiction) at the bottom

is extraneous - frufru - it's redundant. Whenever I see the restatement, I simply restate, Oregon, Lincoln County.

They don't need this second line, and why some think they do is a mystery. I suspect someone who drafted the cert. didn't know what they were doing, and it looks so legal-beagle.

As you said, your stamp says it all, so your venue should match, sans county, unless you are commissioned county by county.

jmho.

Reply by BrendaTx on 11/1/11 6:15pm
Msg #402431

Jillian, if there was already a VENUE at the top...

I would fill out the bottom so that it said what is between the " quotes. "

State: "Texas"
County: "Resident of Brazos County, Texas"
County Acting in: "Travis County, Texas"



(This is if the act is taking place in Travis County, Texas.)

Reply by MW/VA on 11/1/11 4:37pm
Msg #402420

It would be a whole other discussion about incorrect info

from NNA.
I live in a state where I have a commission for the entire state, also.
The venue is always where the signing is taking place (& where you're feet are planted at that moment). Even though it is redundant in those extra lines below your signature, I put the same info.
IMO it is a mute point that you are a "Notary at large" (which is what the terminology is for a state-wide commission), but the point is that you are acting in a particular county or city at the time.
That's my .02 on the subject, and is exactly what I've been doing for over five years.
You might be better advised to come to this forum for your info in the future. You don't always get correct info here either, but it is far more reliable than that other source.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 11/1/11 5:01pm
Msg #402424

Re: It would be a whole other discussion about incorrect info

I also agree with Marilyn. I put the county that my feet are in on BOTH if asked too. I am commissioned state wide also. I've been doing it this way for 7 years now and never, ever have been questioned about it. I also think its redundant that they want this info twice but I fill it in.

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/1/11 5:05pm
Msg #402426

Re: It would be a whole other discussion about incorrect info

Linda, if you have a state wide commission I'm guessing that is why you have no problem. If you are commissioned in the entire state it makes sense that you are also commissioned for all counties in the state. My problem is with my Missouri commission, where EVERYONE says to put at the top "where your feet are" but disagree about what to put under the notary signature line, and most say to put the county showing on your seal there unless it specifically says "county acting in."

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/1/11 5:02pm
Msg #402425

Re: It would be a whole other discussion about incorrect info

Sigh. So some would put all over the cert where they are at the time of the signing, while most others put where they are at the top and below the notary signature they put their own county and if there is a place for county acting in they put where they are at the time of signing. I have no idea at this point which is right, but if THEY are right my seal for Missouri won't match up with what I put under the signature line if I am in a county that isn't what is on my seal, althought if I put the county in when I'm in Kansas it would probably be okay as my seal just shows state of Kansas on it, and no county. Anyone else have an opinion?

Reply by jba/fl on 11/1/11 6:45pm
Msg #402435

Sure - I have opinion

Pick a method and be consistent from here on out. Make a decision as by not making a decision, you have made a decision anyway.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/2/11 5:37am
Msg #402465

Jillian, everyone is giving answers based on their

location - here in FL we don't have that wording *required* under the signature line so, technically, we can line through it or ignore it and our certificates would be complete.

My suggestion to you would be that rather than get frustrated with the answers you're receiving, refer to your handbook....Page 35 gives sample certificates and explains the elements required for a complete Missouri notarial cert. Page 25 details the information required for your stamp...however, a subsequent paragraph on page 25 states the following:

"The notary must also type, print or have a rubber stamp in print not smaller that eight-point type with certain information on every completed notary certificate: their exact name as it appears on their commission, “Notary Public,” “State of Missouri,” their expiration date and the county for which they are commissioned"

So, in the example you're concerned about, your venue (top of cert) would be State of Missouri, County of <<wherever your feet are>> - under your signature line would be your name, expiration date, and the county where you're commissioned (not necessarily where your feet are) - IMO you can then ignore the "acting in..." section or, if you prefer to complete it, again IMO you're "acting in <<where your feet are>>"

http://www.sos.mo.gov/business/commissions/pubs/notary/notary_handbook.pdf

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/2/11 7:58am
Msg #402471

Just saw this last part of your post...

" when I'm in Kansas it would probably be okay as my seal just shows state of Kansas on it, and no county. "

then you'd follow Kansas protocol - you can look that up

No room for "opinions" here - it's the state notary laws that prevail no matter what anyone says - that's MY only opinion...

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/2/11 8:02am
Msg #402472

Here you go (time to kill while printing)

Kansas Notary Handbook page 8

"When notarizing a document, the notary public must add to the document the date of expiration of his or her appointment."

http://www.kssos.org/forms/administration/book.pdf

Good Luck.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/2/11 8:03am
Msg #402473

Hmm...Kansas is interesting...goes on to state

"Failure to Attach Date of Expiration

If the notary public willfully neglects or refuses to attach his or her date of expiration of appointment when notarizing a document, the notary public shall be deemed guilty of a Class C misdemeanor (K.S.A. 53-106). Failure to attach the date of expiration also may be
grounds for revocation of the notary’s appointment (K.S.A. 53-118"

Reply by jba/fl on 11/2/11 10:00am
Msg #402484

Re: Hmm...Kansas is interesting...goes on to state

Now that you have spoon-fed this person, this gives new meaning to forewarned is forearmed.

How on earth you keep up with all states when others can barely keep up with one, let alone two.....you are a marvel to be treasured.

Reply by Jillian Hinrichs on 11/2/11 11:01am
Msg #402492

Re: Here you go (time to kill while printing)

Thanks, Linda. That is because for Kansas you have to get your seal and include an imprint of it BEFORE you can get your notary commission, so since the expiration doesn't show up on the seal you have to put it within the cert, and I also (it was optional) included a line within the seal to write it in.

Reply by Lee/AR on 11/1/11 5:34pm
Msg #402428

The 'straight from AR SOS' word on this is...

The top is, of course, venue---where your feet are.
Under your signature--the 'acting in' IS the county where you were commissioned; that is what AR SOS says belongs on that line. (Even tho' AR notaries can notarize statewide.)
Note that I have no clue what MO or KS or any other state wants. I speak only for AR.

Reply by Notarysigner on 11/1/11 6:16pm
Msg #402432

Re: The 'straight from AR SOS' word on this is...

I've seen a few here and instead of it saying 'acting in' it will say county where bond is on file-in Calif that is.

Reply by HisHughness on 11/1/11 5:43pm
Msg #402430

Jillian, I commend to you Message 402376 by Priscilla Witman

...and her subsequent posts in that thread for guidance on how a new notary public should establish her practice. Hint: It is not by closing loans with 185-page packets.

Reply by Priscilla Witman on 11/2/11 10:04am
Msg #402486

Re: Jillian, I commend to you Message 402376 by Priscilla Witman

When I saw this post, I was almost beside myself. The famous Hugh actually referred someone to something I wrote! And not as a "what-not-to-do" warning! I am so flattered! :]

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 11/2/11 6:54am
Msg #402466

Don't see this very often, but

since my commission is for the entire state and not just for one county (and havent all states started doing this?), under my signature I would write State of Florida, cross through the county and write "State at large".

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 11/2/11 8:08am
Msg #402476

I do the almost the same Robert

When under the signature line it has "State of ___" I insert Florida, normally don't even worry about the county or "acting in" verbiage - not required here so leaving it blank does not invalidate the cert, IMO.

Most of this, I think, comes from the overkill mentality of many companies - they feel more words in the docs is better and covers a multitude of sins...think that's why they also started including the "Under penalties of perjury" language in the certs on the docs they send - 'cuz it looks good - I cross that out.

JMO